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FSTDT Refugee Board :: FSTDT Community :: Politics and Government :: Cowboy's Call to Action!
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AuthorTopic: Cowboy's Call to Action! (Read 6,371 times)
ltfred
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Re: Cowboy's Call to Action!
« Reply #375 on Apr 24, 2009, 9:25pm »

Apr 23, 2009, 10:16pm, devilschaplain2 wrote:

Apr 23, 2009, 10:12pm, ltfred wrote:


Sometimes majority or simply big shareholders can influence decision-making as well. That would be something for the courts to decide.

The problem is, currently CEOs have only an obligation to their shareholders and not to the law. The rule in practice makes corporate structure amoral.

Amoral =/= Immoral

Amoral is neither moral nor immoral, so be careful of definitions.


Amorality is where someone or something acts regardless of the moral effects of their actions. Usually it's purely in their self-interest, but someone acting irrationally would also probably be amoral.
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"You... expect mindless following of laws."

"the rules are different for the collective (government)."
m52nickerson

"Some people say I’m extreme, but they said the John Birch Society was extreme, too.”
Kelly Khuri, founder of the Clark County Tea Party Patriots
devilschaplain2
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Re: Cowboy's Call to Action!
« Reply #376 on Apr 24, 2009, 9:26pm »

Quote:
Don't bother. He's clearly a moron.

Coming from someone who doesn't know enough U.S. history to understand the Civil War and who thinks U.S. troops receive a Medal of Honor for "suicide bombing" civilians, I'm not sure if your opinion matters.


Quote:
He has not even a passing understanding of the requirements for an argument, constantly uses logical fallacies and assertions to support his assertions and often cannot be undertood.

Pot. Kettle. Black.
« Last Edit: Apr 24, 2009, 9:28pm by devilschaplain2 »Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged
devilschaplain2
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Re: Cowboy's Call to Action!
« Reply #377 on Apr 24, 2009, 9:27pm »

Apr 24, 2009, 9:25pm, ltfred wrote:

Apr 23, 2009, 10:16pm, devilschaplain2 wrote:

Amoral =/= Immoral

Amoral is neither moral nor immoral, so be careful of definitions.


Amorality is where someone or something acts regardless of the moral effects of their actions. Usually it's purely in their self-interest, but someone acting irrationally would also probably be amoral.

a⋅mor⋅al
not involving questions of right or wrong; without moral quality; neither moral nor immoral.

Way to fail, dude.
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devilschaplain2
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Re: Cowboy's Call to Action!
« Reply #378 on Apr 24, 2009, 9:28pm »

Quote:
Here's a clue: just saying something is not an argument. You have to show why your claim is so.

Then why do you keep doing so?
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devilschaplain2
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Re: Cowboy's Call to Action!
« Reply #379 on Apr 24, 2009, 9:31pm »

Quote:
Fines and regulation are adequete punishment because. It works because I say so. They have less rights than people because.

There's no argument to refute, just a line of assertions that Booley argued were false. In order to argue that they were, in fact, correct, you repeated them louder.

Pay attention to the conversation: I wasn't arguing. I just don't think Booley understood what I was saying. No need to throw a tantrum, kid.
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ltfred
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Re: Cowboy's Call to Action!
« Reply #380 on Apr 24, 2009, 9:32pm »

Apr 23, 2009, 9:56pm, devilschaplain2 wrote:

Quote:
So the corporation would be punished without actually being treated like a person. That would also make the preosectution much easier, since the corporation would not have the right to privacy, since it's not a person.

But corporations are treated as a single entity, especially under environmental law. That's how corporations are treated as a "person", which isn't a bad thing.


Because it is so, it is good right? So poverty is good, murder is good, ect.
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"You... expect mindless following of laws."

"the rules are different for the collective (government)."
m52nickerson

"Some people say I’m extreme, but they said the John Birch Society was extreme, too.”
Kelly Khuri, founder of the Clark County Tea Party Patriots
devilschaplain2
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Re: Cowboy's Call to Action!
« Reply #381 on Apr 24, 2009, 9:33pm »

Apr 24, 2009, 9:32pm, ltfred wrote:

Apr 23, 2009, 9:56pm, devilschaplain2 wrote:

But corporations are treated as a single entity, especially under environmental law. That's how corporations are treated as a "person", which isn't a bad thing.


Because it is so, it is good right? So poverty is good, murder is good, ect.

Are you high right now?....Because I have no idea what you're trying to say ::)
« Last Edit: Apr 24, 2009, 9:34pm by devilschaplain2 »Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged
ltfred
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Re: Cowboy's Call to Action!
« Reply #382 on Apr 24, 2009, 9:42pm »

Apr 23, 2009, 9:51pm, devilschaplain2 wrote:
The Constitution. Read it.


Irrelevent. The constitution is only valid if most people want it to be valid. The second most people governed by it no longer want it, it becomes an invalid law, and any attempt to enforce it is tyranny. Governments and laws rule at the pleasure of the populace. It's called liberal democracy, learn it.

Similarly, countries and states exist only with the consent of the people governed by them. In order to have a right to something, you have that regardless of what everyone else wants. Therefore, states cannot be said to have rights if they have not even the right to exist, since they are invented by the governed as conveniences and can be overthrown legally at any time by a majority.

This is all basic Lockean theory. Your government is ostensibly based on this.


Apr 23, 2009, 9:51pm, devilschaplain2 wrote:
State rights exist in the sense that both the national government and state governments get certain amounts of power. So, yes, there are "state rights."


That's not a right. For a start, it's a conditional 'right', and rights are unconditional. Secondly, it's not something other people have to abstain from doing to you, it's something you have to do to them. It's more of a delegation of responsibility than a right. Its a right in the same way that a surgeon has the right to do the cutting and the nurse has the right to do the passing: ie not at all.
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"You... expect mindless following of laws."

"the rules are different for the collective (government)."
m52nickerson

"Some people say I’m extreme, but they said the John Birch Society was extreme, too.”
Kelly Khuri, founder of the Clark County Tea Party Patriots
ltfred
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Re: Cowboy's Call to Action!
« Reply #383 on Apr 24, 2009, 9:44pm »

Apr 24, 2009, 9:33pm, devilschaplain2 wrote:

Apr 24, 2009, 9:32pm, ltfred wrote:


Because it is so, it is good right? So poverty is good, murder is good, ect.

Are you high right now?....Because I have no idea what you're trying to say ::)


You made a claim that things that exist are automatically right. I pointed out that that makes poverty, and murder morally right.
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"You... expect mindless following of laws."

"the rules are different for the collective (government)."
m52nickerson

"Some people say I’m extreme, but they said the John Birch Society was extreme, too.”
Kelly Khuri, founder of the Clark County Tea Party Patriots
ltfred
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member is offline





Joined: Mar 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,236
Location: In the highest room
Re: Cowboy's Call to Action!
« Reply #384 on Apr 24, 2009, 9:46pm »

Apr 24, 2009, 9:27pm, devilschaplain2 wrote:

Apr 24, 2009, 9:25pm, ltfred wrote:


Amorality is where someone or something acts regardless of the moral effects of their actions. Usually it's purely in their self-interest, but someone acting irrationally would also probably be amoral.

a⋅mor⋅al
not involving questions of right or wrong; without moral quality; neither moral nor immoral.

Way to fail, dude.


So, by your definition, for instance an amoral person would be one who acts without regard to the morality of their actions? For instance, purely in their self-interest?

Or, in other words, exactly what I said.
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"You... expect mindless following of laws."

"the rules are different for the collective (government)."
m52nickerson

"Some people say I’m extreme, but they said the John Birch Society was extreme, too.”
Kelly Khuri, founder of the Clark County Tea Party Patriots
ltfred
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Joined: Mar 2009
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Posts: 3,236
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Re: Cowboy's Call to Action!
« Reply #385 on Apr 24, 2009, 9:49pm »

Apr 24, 2009, 9:26pm, devilschaplain2 wrote:

Quote:
Don't bother. He's clearly a moron.

Coming from someone who doesn't know enough U.S. history to understand the Civil War and who thinks U.S. troops receive a Medal of Honor for "suicide bombing" civilians, I'm not sure if your opinion matters.


What is suicide bombing? To launch an attack that will almost certainly cause your death. For instance, all modern Medal of Honour recipients were dead when they were awarded their medals.
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"You... expect mindless following of laws."

"the rules are different for the collective (government)."
m52nickerson

"Some people say I’m extreme, but they said the John Birch Society was extreme, too.”
Kelly Khuri, founder of the Clark County Tea Party Patriots
devilschaplain2
Guest
Re: Cowboy's Call to Action!
« Reply #386 on Apr 24, 2009, 9:52pm »

Apr 24, 2009, 9:44pm, ltfred wrote:

Apr 24, 2009, 9:33pm, devilschaplain2 wrote:

Are you high right now?....Because I have no idea what you're trying to say ::)


You made a claim that things that exist are automatically right. I pointed out that that makes poverty, and murder morally right.

But since I didn't make that claim, who cares?
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devilschaplain2
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Re: Cowboy's Call to Action!
« Reply #387 on Apr 24, 2009, 9:53pm »

Apr 24, 2009, 9:46pm, ltfred wrote:

Apr 24, 2009, 9:27pm, devilschaplain2 wrote:

a⋅mor⋅al
not involving questions of right or wrong; without moral quality; neither moral nor immoral.

Way to fail, dude.


So, by your definition, for instance an amoral person would be one who acts without regard to the morality of their actions? For instance, purely in their self-interest?

Or, in other words, exactly what I said.

Um...no, nothing like you said. It is neither moral nor immoral. How does that mean "purely in one's self-interest"? That makes no sense.
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devilschaplain2
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Re: Cowboy's Call to Action!
« Reply #388 on Apr 24, 2009, 9:55pm »

Apr 24, 2009, 9:49pm, ltfred wrote:

Apr 24, 2009, 9:26pm, devilschaplain2 wrote:

Coming from someone who doesn't know enough U.S. history to understand the Civil War and who thinks U.S. troops receive a Medal of Honor for "suicide bombing" civilians, I'm not sure if your opinion matters.


What is suicide bombing? To launch an attack that will almost certainly cause your death. For instance, all modern Medal of Honour recipients were dead when they were awarded their medals.

Not "almost certainly", but an attack that WILL cause your death. Your goal is to die and to kill or wound other people (or whatever your target is). For example, a kamikaze strike or a person with a bomb vest. Just because a person was dead when they won the Medal of Honor doesn't make it a suicide bombing. Don't be dense.
« Last Edit: Apr 24, 2009, 10:06pm by devilschaplain2 »Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged
ltfred
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Re: Cowboy's Call to Action!
« Reply #389 on Apr 24, 2009, 9:58pm »

Apr 24, 2009, 9:52pm, devilschaplain2 wrote:

Apr 24, 2009, 9:44pm, ltfred wrote:


You made a claim that things that exist are automatically right. I pointed out that that makes poverty, and murder morally right.

But since I didn't make that claim, who cares?


I made the claim that corporations are treated as poeople, which is not good for all sorts of reasons. You responded with:

"But corporations are treated as a single entity, especially under environmental law. That's how corporations are treated as a "person", which isn't a bad thing."

The only argument I can see there is that corporations are treated as a single entity, or a person. Since this is so, 'this isn't a bad thing'.
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"You... expect mindless following of laws."

"the rules are different for the collective (government)."
m52nickerson

"Some people say I’m extreme, but they said the John Birch Society was extreme, too.”
Kelly Khuri, founder of the Clark County Tea Party Patriots
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