Post by chagen on May 3, 2011 16:57:18 GMT -5
-takes deep breath-
I make this not to fight, but to debate. I don't wish to cause any flame wars, only to state my opinion, so others may refute it and as such, a debate may follow. Let it begin:
I do not like antitheism, one bit. As a theist, one would expect me to be completely opposed to it on principle, but I have my reasons for it. It seems that antitheism is a common stance here on FSTDT. I am an oddball, for being a theist, it appears.
First of all, I think that antitheism is fundamentally flawed, for many reasons, which I will only briefly discuss.
First of all, antitheism makes the bold claim that religious belief if wrong. It is evil. And that religion itself is evil.
Except, you know, religion is an ideology and a philosophy. A philosophy cannot be evil. Evil requires sentience and an ability to act on immoral beliefs. Religion is not sentient, and it cannot do anything. It can't be evil. That's like calling a gun evil because it was used to shoot someone. The gun can't do anything. It has to be used to do anything, and that's all on its human operator.
But even continuing on further, antitheists (and sometimes atheists) will continuously point to wrongdoings done by religious people. They talk about the ex-gay camps, they talk about fundies hating homosexual people, they talk about all the horrible evil things that religious people do. And that is why the religion itself is evil.
They never realize that these guys are the minority in the religion, and that most of it's members are perfectly normal, well adjusted people.
But that matters not to the Antitheist, for he is too full of hubris to even acknowledge this.
Antitheists are stuck-up assholes, to put it bluntly. They put themselves into a ivory tower, heralded by Rationalism and Skepticism. Anybody religious could not possibly be as smart as them--the mere trace of theism means that they are rabble, that they are stupid, that they are ignorant, unaware of how the world goes on.
All theists are stupid. Antitheists are completely incapable of comprehending that someone could believe in a God and still be rational, intelligent, and skeptical, no matter what evidence they are given. They refuse any arguments contrary to their beliefs (not unlike fundies themselves), because their theist opponents are clearly too ignorant to see the truth. Antitheists demonize them as backwards and intolerant.
It never occurs to the Antitheists that he is as intolerant as the people he despises.
Which leads me to my last point:
Antitheists have a hatred of religious people. They wish that all religion was gone.
Antitheism is discrimination, and no less vile than racism or sexism.
It advocates the destruction of a group (religious people). It may not want to kill them, but it does advocate destroying part of their culture and heritage. It wants to force religious people into an atheistic worldview. In my belief, of their own accord, someone is perfectly fine to become an atheist, but to force someone is wrong beyond all compare.
Antitheism advocates the destruction of all religion--a Cultural Genocide of religion. Never mind that there are many religious people around the world who do no wrong. No, to the antitheist, they must be shown the "error" of their ways. They must be eliminated. They are wrong. Antitheism is right.
There is no difference between the white man who dreams of destroying all non-whites, and the antitheist who dreams of genociding the culture of billions around the world.
Both demonize what they hate.
Both believe that all members of the groups they hate are the exact same.
Both believe that they are right under all circumstances.
Both are disgusting bigots.
---------
With this in mind, I cannot treat antitheism with anything but utter hatred. Not antitheists themselves, mind you. I am fine with them. But what they believe is something I cannot endorse in the slightest.
---------
I do believe I got a little too opinionated at the end there. But this is what I thought of after some thinking on it.
I wish to see arguments for antitheism, and the like. Please, tear into this as much as you'd like. I did get far too aggressive by the end. Point out every logical fallacy inside it that you can. I want to know what parts of my debate are wrong, and how to fix them, so I may have a more rational and sensible world view.
I make this not to fight, but to debate. I don't wish to cause any flame wars, only to state my opinion, so others may refute it and as such, a debate may follow. Let it begin:
I do not like antitheism, one bit. As a theist, one would expect me to be completely opposed to it on principle, but I have my reasons for it. It seems that antitheism is a common stance here on FSTDT. I am an oddball, for being a theist, it appears.
First of all, I think that antitheism is fundamentally flawed, for many reasons, which I will only briefly discuss.
First of all, antitheism makes the bold claim that religious belief if wrong. It is evil. And that religion itself is evil.
Except, you know, religion is an ideology and a philosophy. A philosophy cannot be evil. Evil requires sentience and an ability to act on immoral beliefs. Religion is not sentient, and it cannot do anything. It can't be evil. That's like calling a gun evil because it was used to shoot someone. The gun can't do anything. It has to be used to do anything, and that's all on its human operator.
But even continuing on further, antitheists (and sometimes atheists) will continuously point to wrongdoings done by religious people. They talk about the ex-gay camps, they talk about fundies hating homosexual people, they talk about all the horrible evil things that religious people do. And that is why the religion itself is evil.
They never realize that these guys are the minority in the religion, and that most of it's members are perfectly normal, well adjusted people.
But that matters not to the Antitheist, for he is too full of hubris to even acknowledge this.
Antitheists are stuck-up assholes, to put it bluntly. They put themselves into a ivory tower, heralded by Rationalism and Skepticism. Anybody religious could not possibly be as smart as them--the mere trace of theism means that they are rabble, that they are stupid, that they are ignorant, unaware of how the world goes on.
All theists are stupid. Antitheists are completely incapable of comprehending that someone could believe in a God and still be rational, intelligent, and skeptical, no matter what evidence they are given. They refuse any arguments contrary to their beliefs (not unlike fundies themselves), because their theist opponents are clearly too ignorant to see the truth. Antitheists demonize them as backwards and intolerant.
It never occurs to the Antitheists that he is as intolerant as the people he despises.
Which leads me to my last point:
Antitheists have a hatred of religious people. They wish that all religion was gone.
Antitheism is discrimination, and no less vile than racism or sexism.
It advocates the destruction of a group (religious people). It may not want to kill them, but it does advocate destroying part of their culture and heritage. It wants to force religious people into an atheistic worldview. In my belief, of their own accord, someone is perfectly fine to become an atheist, but to force someone is wrong beyond all compare.
Antitheism advocates the destruction of all religion--a Cultural Genocide of religion. Never mind that there are many religious people around the world who do no wrong. No, to the antitheist, they must be shown the "error" of their ways. They must be eliminated. They are wrong. Antitheism is right.
There is no difference between the white man who dreams of destroying all non-whites, and the antitheist who dreams of genociding the culture of billions around the world.
Both demonize what they hate.
Both believe that all members of the groups they hate are the exact same.
Both believe that they are right under all circumstances.
Both are disgusting bigots.
---------
With this in mind, I cannot treat antitheism with anything but utter hatred. Not antitheists themselves, mind you. I am fine with them. But what they believe is something I cannot endorse in the slightest.
---------
I do believe I got a little too opinionated at the end there. But this is what I thought of after some thinking on it.
I wish to see arguments for antitheism, and the like. Please, tear into this as much as you'd like. I did get far too aggressive by the end. Point out every logical fallacy inside it that you can. I want to know what parts of my debate are wrong, and how to fix them, so I may have a more rational and sensible world view.
