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Post by RavynousHunter on Dec 31, 2011 6:06:30 GMT -5
Yeah, but one is the religion of skeevy bankers, the other is the religion of Evil Brown People (TM), and the latter is the religion of REAL AMRKNS.
[/moron]
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Post by Meshakhad on Dec 31, 2011 13:41:25 GMT -5
Fundie Christians always preach from the OT, which is the Torah with a few books omitted in order to minimise embarrassment. I'm sorry, but I have to correct your statement. The Torah is the first five books of the Old Testament - Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. In the traditional Jewish interpretation, the Torah was written by G-d, with Moses as the scribe. The Torah is written as a narrative, but its true purpose is a lawbook. The 613 commandments that comprise the core of Jewish law are all contained in Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. The rest of the OT are the books like Judges, Isaiah, and Ecclesiastes. Save a few like Ecclesiastes, Lamentations, and Psalms, these are strictly narratives, written by mortal authors, although they are considered to be "divinely inspired". The Christian version of the OT includes a couple books not in the Jewish version, such as Maccabees (which Jews merely consider a historical document, albeit one that describes miraculous events). I would also take issue with your statement that Islam is tolerant of other faiths, where Christianity is not. Both religions have historically persecuted other religions. It is true that in the Middle Ages, Jews living in Muslim countries generally enjoyed more rights than those in Christian countries. This was (in part) due to the fact that even hardline Muslims had the system of dhimmitude, which allowed Jews and Christians to live as second-class citizens (which sounds bad, until you realize that the alternative involved decapitation). In Christian lands, Jews were generally at the whim of their rulers. One ruler might be a fundie, and burn Jews at the stake. But his successor could decide that an infusion of cash into the local economy would do nicely, and decrees of religious tolerance are cheap. I do agree with the gist of your post - namely, that the three religions, so similar, have shed so much blood. The simple fact is that it is a historical pattern for wars between those of similar but not identical beliefs to be fiercer and bloodier than those between completely different religions. If you think the Middle East is bad, take a trip to early 17th-century Germany.
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Post by Yla on Jan 1, 2012 7:55:51 GMT -5
The Koran is also largely the OT. No. It isn't. Nah, it's not that simple. Depends on the time and place. What Meshakhad said.
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Jan 1, 2012 16:50:41 GMT -5
The problem with the Middle East is that it's essentially a theocracy, which essentially means being a fundamentalist Muslim is the norm because that's how people are raised to be.
Once you get to places like... France, and the USA, the problem is less pronounced. There's still fundies, but then there's also people who are reasonable and nice about the whole thing. <partial sarcasm> I mean, they even let their women leave the home without a male accompanying them sometimes. </partial sarcasm>
...It is kinda sad that THAT is a sign of progression, but that's misogyny for ya.
And personally, if a woman wants to wear a headscarf, or even a hijab, I don't have the right to tell her "No, you can't, it's oppressing you". Forcing what you consider freedom on someone isn't giving them freedom, it's just a different tyranny.
*glares in France's general direction*
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Post by cestlefun17 on Jan 2, 2012 9:34:29 GMT -5
France does not ban wearing a headscarf or hijab, only the burqa which is a full facial covering. There are legitimate security concerns in not wanting people to be able to walk around wearing what is essentially a body bag with a little mesh in front of the eyes. Personally, I would prefer limiting this ban to certain areas such as metros, train stations, airports, etc. and allowing business owners to refuse entry to people wearing it rather than an all-out ban, but it is by no means as extreme as you are making it out to be.
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