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Post by Shane for Wax on Dec 31, 2011 13:53:39 GMT -5
I'm not the least bit surprised that nothing has happened to the cops responsible, and likely never will. They are above the law after all. No, no they are not above the law. And this is the problem. The cops who think they are? They're wrong and the ones I want out of my line of blue so that the rest of my boys in blue can operate better and without so many people breathing down their necks. It is a fault that people believe the cops should be above the law or not under scrutiny. Out of any organization cops should be the example of the proper citizen. Normal people they may be but immune from scrutiny they are not. There has become a frightening idea that politicians and cops can operate outside of the law and immune from any backlash. This is wrong. Hell, I myself have come under fire by operating under the insistence that the persons responsible should come under fire, not the entire profession as a whole. The moment you stop treating the persons responsible as individual from the rest is the moment you cease to look like a sane and rational person to me. It would be like one of us doing something wrong and then the whole world viewing FSTDT as a horrible, wretched group of individuals. It just is not fair to view a group like the police force for what a few individuals do. It is a vicious cycle, in fact. I always cringe when something happens with the police that is negative because I hate that there are people who sully the uniform. I don't know about you but I'd hate for someone from this site doing something wrong then everyone viewing me like I did something wrong when I didn't.
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queenofhearts
Junior Member
Another atheist transgirl with too many opinions and not enough money
Posts: 70
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Post by queenofhearts on Dec 31, 2011 14:11:21 GMT -5
Not every one of those officers should be held accountable, but there is a huge problem with police fraternity and their code of silence. I doubt one cop handled this indigent by themself and I'd be willing to bet money that a majority of cops who would see such abuse would remain silent or commit perjury to protect one of their own. I mean look at the Scott Olsen and Occupy Oakland as an example. One officer shot him in the head with a tear gas canister, 1 threw a flash bang grenade a little over a yard from Scott's unconscious body, and at least 100 officers witnessed assault with a deadly weapon and remained indifferent, and to this day silent, on which officer(s) committed the crimes. Personally, I think every officer there should be fired and charged with whatever crime possible (conspiracy maybe). And the teachers metaphor fails, miserably. A teacher who see abuse would report it and I could list a few examples from my middle school and high school years to verify as much. My interaction with law enforcement has been considerably different.
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Post by tiado on Dec 31, 2011 14:14:43 GMT -5
No, no they are not above the law. And this is the problem. If they're not above the law, then why haven't they been charged with anything? so... holding police responsible is "breathing down their necks"? I wish the police would not be above the law, but so many stories about police misconduct that would put a person like me into prison for a very long time, kind of makes them de-facto above the law. except they sure as hell seem to get no backlash for their wrongdoings. Also, the profession was once honorable, but it has been overrun by thugs who get off on the power granted to them. I'm sure if one of us here did something, we'd be crushed by the heavy hand of the law. we would not get the protection of systematic coverups and won't be able to hide behind the blue wall of silence, threatening any honest officer who dares to speak out. This isn't just the police that behave this way, I don't like the Roman Catholic Church anymore because of the systematic coverups concerning the sexual abuse of children by priests. if it was just "a few" it wouldn't be a problem, except this isn't the first time brutality like this has happened, and it sure as fuck won't be the last. I just wanted to state how I feel, I hope you can accept that. Just don't come after me now, please?
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Post by Smurfette Principle on Dec 31, 2011 14:39:38 GMT -5
And this is why the "technically nonlethal" darts from The Supernaturalist are looking more and more realistic every day. By that do you mean the Eoin Colfer book? Yes. The one where they have lightning rods that are technically nonlethal, so long as you stay for the antidote. Pepper spray and tasers are also classified as nonlethal weapons, if used as they are meant to be used: as infrequently as possible, for suspects of a crime that are at risk of putting the officers in danger. Essentially, they are the replacements for guns. But that is not what they end up being used for. They're used to punish pregnant women for speeding or torture corralled protesters.
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Post by Vene on Dec 31, 2011 15:02:47 GMT -5
I prefer "less than lethal" as a taser or pepper spray has a chance of killing a healthy person even when used correctly. But you are absolutely correct that they are meant to replace guns. If it is not appropriate for a cop to pull out a pistol, it is not appropriate for the cop to use a taser or pepper spray. I kind of wonder if less than lethal weapons are one of those nice things we can't have, at least cops don't shoot people for speeding.
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Post by Shane for Wax on Dec 31, 2011 15:32:07 GMT -5
If they're not above the law, then why haven't they been charged with anything? I can't tell you that. Why do you assume I have the answer? Looking at every police officer like they're out to get you or are waiting for a chance to fuck you over or claiming that each police officer is bad is breathing down their necks. Not helping them during a crime is a crime itself, too. And constantly berating them for not solving a crime, breathing down their neck. Just sitting and waiting for someone to fuck up is breathing down their neck. You make it seem like someone magically said 'okay, police are above the law and can't be charged with anything ever'. You make it seem so official. When it isn't. It just so happens they might not get charged. That's when you bring in others who will do what needs to be done with the case. They are 'above the law' because of the actions of a few tarnishing the image. People who would be a shining example aren't joining up because of how they would be treated. If we could get those whistle-blowers in there then they wouldn't be above the law anymore. Plus, we'd need less corrupt government officials like mayors and the like. The system as it is needs to be overhauled. I admit that. Then what the fuck are you doing? How is this not backlash? How is your attitude not backlash? How is the view of police officers in the US and elsewhere not backlash? You have an odd idea of what is backlash then. Especially when you have cop killers. How is that not backlash either? Innocent cops being killed because of this image of them being the enemy. That sure ain't backlash. You make it seem like it's the fault of the good cops for what the thugs who join up do. Sure would be. And if people operated like they do against the police we'd all be viewed as bad, right? Yeah. That would be fun as shit. Some of us could be upstanding citizens but with the attitude you hold we wouldn't come out of that shadow. See how it works? As for the RCC, there is a lot more to not like about them than that. But I wouldn't automatically shout or think 'PEDOPHILE' if I saw a priest from the RCC walking down the street. Just like I wouldn't shout or think 'MURDERER' if I saw a cop. In the grand scheme of thing it is just a few. It isn't a vast majority doing shit like this. So yes, if you take the entire population that is cops and then factor in how many are doing bad stuff yes, it is a few. It isn't the first time a politician has done so-and-so and it isn't the last. You can say the same for any kind of profession out there. "Oh, that isn't the first time that tattoo artist has gotten arrested for using bad needles and it won't be the last." See how that works? Bad shit happens all the time. People do bad shit no matter their profession. That last mini-paragraph is a cop out [forgive the pun]. Saying 'I'm just stating how I feel' after being very long-winded against what i say? Yeah... okay. This kinda shit is unfortunate. And I hope something is done. But I really cannot see myself thinking every single cop out there is dealing drugs on the side, killing prisoners, abusing suspects, etc., It's like me viewing every professor out there as wanting to make me feel stupid in front of the class and insulting me publicly. But alas, there is nothing I can personally do that would be of any major help. I can demand justice, just like everyone else can. But actually charging those responsible with something i cannot do. You can be wary of somebody without outright despising them. I don't really expect a response. But I figured I should expand on things.
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Dec 31, 2011 15:47:06 GMT -5
I once made a cop's day when I was a little kid.
I walked up to him and thanked him for being a hero XD
Completely on my own, too. I asked permission from my mother, but the idea was entirely mine.
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Post by jackmann on Dec 31, 2011 15:50:28 GMT -5
Most cops are decent people. There are very few reasons someone would want to become a cop, given the pay vs. the risk, and while some do join for the power trip, most are there because they want to help people.
Unfortunately, because all cops get painted the same as the corrupt ones, it turns into an us-vs.-them attitude. They're derided in the media, dehumanized and called pigs, and even when they're doing exactly what they're supposed to do, are treated as villains.
Add into this politicians willing to sell them out when it's convenient, and they turn defensive. They circle the wagons. They protect even the bad cops, because they feel it's all of them on the line, no matter what they've done. Any scrutiny is likely to come around and bite them in the ass, so they try to avoid any. And because the system seems designed to fail and hobble them, they're more likely to try and contravene it, leading even well-intentioned police to commit offenses against the populace they're intended to protect.
The problem isn't just police officers not being held responsible, but that when they are, they're all punished, not just the individuals who fucked up.
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Post by lighthorseman on Jan 1, 2012 0:09:39 GMT -5
Hastily adding: The fact that allegations of police corruption and dirty cops get the kind of media attention they do strongly suggests that it isn't nearly as common an occurrence as people think. When it happens, it gets a lot of attention--but the sheer amount of attention and disbelief associated with these things seems to indicate that they are, therefore, probably pretty uncommon. Uncommon enough to warrant the sort of coverage they get. Right, isolated incidents, hence thread title.
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Post by lighthorseman on Jan 1, 2012 0:12:11 GMT -5
Right, the fact that most cops don't murder helpless prisoners means this sort of stuff should pass unremarked. Commenting on it might upset the clean cops, and we wouldn't want that. Best not say anything.
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Post by Shane for Wax on Jan 1, 2012 0:20:23 GMT -5
Right, the fact that most cops don't murder helpless prisoners means this sort of stuff should pass unremarked. Commenting on it might upset the clean cops, and we wouldn't want that. Best not say anything. It's amusing how you extracted that from what was said.
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Post by jackmann on Jan 1, 2012 0:25:19 GMT -5
No. It means that these particular cops should be punished, and an investigation opened to make sure that this was indeed an isolated incident in the precinct. It should be kept clear in our minds that police officers not involved in this incident were not responsible, and we should not say "cops are horrible monsters." We should say "those cops are horrible monsters."
Unfortunately, the media tends not to make that fine distinction. And many people don't feel that way, instead treating all officers of the law as though they were beer-swilling, hippy-beating monsters. That is why Shane is making the distinction clear here.
And, of course you didn't mean your thread title with any hint of irony, and of course you're not implying that this sort of incident is common. You're much too smart and happening a cat to do something like that. But it's certainly possible that someone might read it that way, and it's best to make it clear.
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Post by Smurfette Principle on Jan 1, 2012 0:34:44 GMT -5
I prefer "less than lethal" as a taser or pepper spray has a chance of killing a healthy person even when used correctly. But you are absolutely correct that they are meant to replace guns. If it is not appropriate for a cop to pull out a pistol, it is not appropriate for the cop to use a taser or pepper spray. I kind of wonder if less than lethal weapons are one of those nice things we can't have, at least cops don't shoot people for speeding. It's because people think "nonlethal" means "I can use these whenever I want because it won't kill them, right?" A gun is very, very bad, but pepper spray is just a little pain. One of the cops who was part of our DARE program told us once that he had to be shot with pepper spray in order to carry it. He said that it was the most painful thing he'd ever experienced, and even showering multiple times couldn't erase the burning. There aren't standard rules for using or carrying pepper spray. That experience isn't the norm, but I think it should be. You should know exactly what you are doing when you shoot someone with pepper spray or a taser, and have that experience repeated maybe once every five years, just so that you don't forget it. It might not eliminate police brutality, but it might just cut it down.
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Post by John E on Jan 1, 2012 1:32:09 GMT -5
Right, the fact that most cops don't murder helpless prisoners means this sort of stuff should pass unremarked. Who exactly said that thing of this sort should pass unremarked? Direct question.
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Post by Kit Walker on Jan 1, 2012 10:59:14 GMT -5
Right, the fact that most cops don't murder helpless prisoners means this sort of stuff should pass unremarked. Commenting on it might upset the clean cops, and we wouldn't want that. Best not say anything. No, it means that sarcastically titling this thread "isolated incident" and stating in the OP that it must have crossed a line because the news media didn't spin it (which I'm going to assume you meant otherwise you made the idiotic assumption that a local, independently run affiliate's news department is the same as the Fox News cable channel) is douchey. The only people responsible for this incident are the relative handful of people complicit in causing it and not investigating or prosecuting it.
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