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Post by Doctor Fishcake on Jan 1, 2012 6:35:54 GMT -5
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Post by Art Vandelay on Jan 1, 2012 6:38:09 GMT -5
But.. But we have to respect their spiritual beliefs!
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Post by clockworkgirl21 on Jan 1, 2012 6:45:56 GMT -5
I've never understood why they think killing someone will appease their gods enough that they'll provide a good harvest. Leap in logic there.
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Post by Art Vandelay on Jan 1, 2012 6:59:56 GMT -5
I've never understood why they think killing someone will appease their gods enough that they'll provide a good harvest. Leap in logic there. ...Whereas gods themselves, especially the gives-a-shit-about-humans kind are perfectly logical?
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Post by ironbite on Jan 1, 2012 7:13:20 GMT -5
well i'm starting the new year off right.
ironbite-be in my angry dome
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Jan 1, 2012 7:23:36 GMT -5
. . . . . . . . .
I just...
what...
...
*cries*
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Post by Yla on Jan 1, 2012 9:48:19 GMT -5
Honestly, Art, the concept of a divine being in and of itself is hardly illogical--the fact that such beliefs exist almost without exception in every culture, living and dead, all across the planet does go a long way to suggesting that imagining gods or godlike beings is fairly intuitive. It's not a massive leap of logic: "My bow exists, so does my axe and so does my hut--I made all three myself. If I did not make them they would not exist. The world exists, therefore someone bigger and more powerful must have made it." It seems nonsensical to us because we don't think that way. I never did understand the connection between sacrificing anything--wine, goods, animals, PEOPLE!!!!--so the gods will give you something completely unrelated. I guess the thinking is that gods like gifts, too, but how anyone decided that gods would prefer a dead goat or the mangled body of a small child over, I dunno, some flowers or a nice urn of wine...? Maybe it just seems weird because my brain doesn't work that way but I really wouldn't want to worship a being whose idea of a neat gift is a dead body. The concept of sacrifices has two foundations: -They provide a feeling of control. A sailor has fundamentally no influcence over the weather, yet a bad storm is going to kill him. He's helpless against it. On the other hand, if he manages to appease Poseidon/Osse/.., he can be more confident to sail out. And a gift is one of the surest ways to get goodwill. Determining which god likes which sacrifices is a bit of a guesswork, but lacking any better ideas, it is likely to be something humans find useful and assign worth to, too. -Then confirmation bias sets in. As soon as someone who once had the idea to sacrifice something has subsequent good luck, people start imitating him. Instances of sacrifices having no or negative consequencescorrelated events are explained away, and after one or two generations you have a nice tradition going. In absence of alternate concepts, it doesn't get questioned much.
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Post by rageaholic on Jan 1, 2012 10:17:05 GMT -5
And that's exactly why I could barely get through my anthropology courses. This cultural relativism bullshit takes political correctness to such an extreme that we can't even decide if killing people or violating their rights are wrong. When we can't even decide on basic human rights, we are fucked as a species.
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Post by Tenfold_Maquette on Jan 1, 2012 11:54:32 GMT -5
I accept that I am enormously biased coming from an extremely privileged culture and country, but I refuse to accept that I have do doubt my own immediate instinctive revulsion over the mistreatment of innocents simply because such treatment is integral to another society. I think it's perfectly possible to understand, intellectually, that some rites and rituals can be important or even integral to a culture...and still condemn the shit out of them. As you said, no one has the "right" to abuse or destroy something/someone because their culture gives it the okay. Rights stop where they infringe on the rights of others, and silently sitting by while others do horrible things in the name of their culture smacks me (at least) as the kind of permissiveness that allows horrible things to keep happening. If the people in the OP decided that someone had to die, it should've been one of them. If you're so convinced someone has to keel over for the gods to pay attention, you'd better be ready to march your ass on up and bleed or die for your faith...none of this making-others-pay-the-price-for-your-happiness bullshit. That poor girl.
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Post by rageaholic on Jan 1, 2012 12:02:44 GMT -5
That's the problem with the "all views are equal" mantra. You can have sound and logical arguements on why human sacrifice is wrong, but the PC anthropologists will say "but that's your own bias!!". Instead of the strict black and white morality the fundies have, these guys look at it all grey.
I remember once I was arguing against cultures which violate human rights and how I shouldn't have to respect them if they can't respect their fellow humans. The response I got was "what if you don't believe in human rights!".
Facepalming ensued.
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czechmate
Full Member
Czech Republic / UK
Posts: 123
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Post by czechmate on Jan 1, 2012 12:07:26 GMT -5
All goes to prove that religion is bollocks.
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Post by Yla on Jan 1, 2012 12:34:11 GMT -5
You can have sound and logical arguements on why human sacrifice is wrong, but the PC anthropologists will say "but that's your own bias!!". Instead of the strict black and white morality the fundies have, these guys look at it all grey. It's not grey, it's colorless. Anthropology as a science should not judge right or wrong - that's a category it's not supposed to have. It follows that anthropology can't forbid you to make that judgement yourself. It also follows, however, that if you allow your judgements and opinions to color you doing antropology, you're not being objective and aren't doing proper science. It's not overzealous PCness - it's trying to keep apart what does not necessarily has to go together and should not for scientific purposes. Or at least that's how it should be ideally. I can't speak for the reality in anthropology.
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Post by Meshakhad on Jan 1, 2012 12:50:24 GMT -5
I think the appropriate punishment is to ban them from ever leaving their land... after irradiating it and salting it so nothing will ever grow there again.
Death by starvation.
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Post by Random Guy on Jan 1, 2012 13:06:36 GMT -5
ARGH- GRR- GUH- I D- DUH- WAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!
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Post by gyeonghwa on Jan 1, 2012 14:26:05 GMT -5
And that's exactly why I could barely get through my anthropology courses. This cultural relativism bullshit takes political correctness to such an extreme that we can't even decide if killing people or violating their rights are wrong. When we can't even decide on basic human rights, we are fucked as a species. Well, there are some nonredeemable relativists in Anthropology, but you might be surprise the majority of us are not like that. The point is to study culture objectively, then you can do things like human rights activism easier. (At least, the anthropologists I've run into doesn't believe you must be relative about everything._
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