For those of you tuning in, this is just a throw-away thread for the ongoing conversation/debate/attempted online exorcism between Nautical999 (fundy of “motel bathtub fight with Leviathan” quote fame) and various fstdt commenters. We all figured it’d be better to actually, you know, use the forums to chat instead of junking up the quote’s comment page. Feel free to ignore this completely.
Nautical, for lack of a better place to start in pulling everyone‘s previous conversations to refer back to, I just went with your first “challenge” to someone on the board (Nautical, your posts are in italics, mine are in bold and Luxmelon- your’s are in regular font. Hopefully that’ll make it easier to read the Great Wall of Text) I tried not to miss any posts, so here goes-
Nautical999- obviously this site allows screen names and it is by anonymity we all post so giving correct answers will not look bad for you. If you feel that you cannot answer all questions truthfully then let me know that i need to pick someone else. 1) how old are you? 2) have you been through anything traumatic in your life. ( explain briefly )? 3) are you a minister who has deceived people claiming supernatural stuff or were you in the occult and claiming to do supernatural stuff? 4) what were your claims? 5) do you ever have recurring dreams or lose time? 6) what kind of family background do you come from?
Reverend Jeremiah we don't know each other at all but i'm willing to bet that i can show you things through Jesus Christ that you have never seen before. Stay with me on this. If it gets to where you are feeling that you need help and you are under attack then i will give you my personal information on how to contact me and we will deal with it. But i would like to keep it here for as long as possible for other unbelievers such as yourself can see. If you think it is all crud then it won't do any harm.
Luxmelon- Hell, even being a witch the coolest thing I've ever had happen is I invoked Loki, which then randomly my candles fell over and set my carpet on fire. I wanna see the pretty blue sea serpent
BTW I accept your challenge as well nautical-man! Try me.
Nautical999- Luxmelon this is not a challenge you are ready for, and obviously reverend Jeremiah wasn't ready either. However there is a dream that you keep having and i can help you through it if you would like. let me know.
As far as my writing and punctuations and all the right ways to write? Who cares? God uses my weaknesses as well as my strengths.
Nautical999- I didn't think there would be any takers here. Since there isn't i will take it as this site is just a trash talking site. For those of you who read this site and are wondering if there is some validity in what we say at ministeringdeliverance.com, or if you or someone you know are experiencing some bad stuff feel free to email me at firstname.lastname@example.org or visit our site. there are many there who want to help. i will leave this contact up as long as there isn't any abuse.
Vana- Nautical, you're lying again. Someone was a "taker" and wanted to do your little B.S. survey thing. Hell, I would have offered to take it myself except that you specifically didn't want anyone else to do so. Why don't you take on your takers, instead of lying and saying there weren't any?
I will say I did get a little laugh out of your "email@example.com" e-mail address. It fits because you are, most definitely, full of it.
Nautical999- actually vana i own a plumbing company as well as doing ministry. God has blessed me immensely. As far as taking all takers. That would work here if only a few would be involved. If we can get all the crud to stop from being posted on here and i can focus on those who are willing then yes we can do it that way. There are some people however that God will lead me to not minister to on open site because it would be harmful for them in this manner. However Those i work with will need to be totally honest and and i do not want any outside badgering of myself or anyone else or this will stop. I would like to start with maybe someone who is well known here who has posted A LOT of anti Christian things here. Vana you are welcome as well and others i will vet out to see what God wants done.
I only ask that when dealing with you and you get a positive outcome showing the power of Jesus Christ then you express your experience for all to read. You can do it without details and even posted anonymously but others need to know that God is Mighty.
I'm sure there are about 50 grammatical errors so there is no need to point this out. We all know. Find something else to say
Vana- So, what exactly did God say you should do? Have I posted enough supposedly anti-Christian things to take your little quiz or not?
Luxmelon- EvoPagan- Yeah it made me giggle >.> I stopped laughing when I had to clean wax out of the carpet though. Needless to say the ritual was a complete bust.
And for the nautical guy: I think I am quite ready. Prove me wrong. And it's funny you mention the dream thing...because I've been concerned about my LACK of symbolic dreams as of late. You're...wrong.
Nautical999- Vana what in your life has been traumatic? such as rejection, abandonment, abuse, rape, etc... Also is there any family diseases past down through generations. are there any family traits like mental illness or hatred or anger? any homosexuality or blatant sinful acts in more than one family member?
What are the signs of having a demon? Not sure what to think of the deliverance ministry? Please take a moment to read What the ministry of deliverance should be!
Here is a brief list of some of the areas in a persons life that a demon can affect. Please note that every time you find somebody struggling or facing one of the areas below, it's not necessarily a demon, but it's not uncommon to find a demon behind these things.
Compulsive sinning against your will: Addictions, uncontrollable anger, lust, urges to murder or commit suicide, etc.
Mental torment: Fear, depression, irrational heaviness in the soul, hearing voices in the mind, hearing audible voices that nobody else hears, compulsive thoughts, insanity, mental illness, etc. Obsessive irrational worry is almost always a demon. People who are scared stiff over the unpardonable sin are in need of counseling and likely deliverance.
Emotional problems: Unable to get close to other people, sensing rejection for no reason, irrational emotional breakdowns, etc. Often more then just casting out demons is needed in this category, inner healing must also take place as well as tearing down strongholds.
Physical health problems: Arthritis, cancer, HIV, and a host of other illnesses are almost always caused by evil spirits. If it cannot be easily cured, then it's almost always a spirit that is causing it.
Occult powers or abilities: Anybody who can tell a fortune, lift an object through levitation, break a solid oak board with their hand, etc. using demonic powers needs a deliverance. Martial arts are known for using demonic powers to break boards, etc. Unnatural strength is a sign of demonic power, such as the man with the legion in the Bible.
Unnatural desires and feelings: Sexual attraction towards animals, unnatural sexual desires, unusually strong attractions towards somebody who is married, past lover, etc. can indicate soul ties and demonic bondage.
Experiencing the demonic: Most often (not always, but usually) when people are visited by demons, hearing them, seeing them, etc., they are in need of a deliverance.
Ancestors have similar problems: If both you and one or more of your ancestors have the same kind of problem(s), then there may be a generational spirit at work.
Obsessions: Driving interests in the occult, demons, and creatures of the dark such as wolves, owls, etc. can indicate a demonic bondage. Obsession with death is almost a sure sign of demonic bondage.
Compulsive behavior: Compulsive behavior such as cutting is a Biblical symptom of demonic bondage.
Vana- Awesome. Sorry to disappoint, but there's been little trauma in my life. The only rejection came when I rejected my Christian upbringing for something that actually made sense to me (atheism)
I wouldn't call homosexuality a disease, but it does definitely run in the family (funny how that works, huh?) I'm a lesbian, my brother is gay, my grandmother is a lesbian (after having 8 kids, who can blame her?), and I have at least two cousins who are probably bisexual.
Thing is, if I were to believe in demons (which I don't) I'd assume they would want actually, you know, cause people harm. Homosexuality doesn't cause people harm. Yes, there are negative aspects of it in today's cultural (high rates of drug use and suicide to start with) but those are symptoms of the discrimination and hatred mainstream society has (and still does) used against homosexuals, not inherent to homosexuality itself.
My grandmother is happy, not afflicted by any demons. I'm happy. My brother's not exactly happy but that's just the way he is and would be the same if he were gay or straight.
"Arthritis, cancer, HIV, and a host of other illnesses are almost always caused by evil spirits. If it cannot be easily cured, then it's almost always a spirit that is causing it."
Actually, you're wrong. These are caused by, 1) an immune system gone haywire, 2) abnormal cell growth, and 3) a virus.
A couple of my family members are some of the kindest, most righteous, best Christians I've ever met. Unlike some, who use their religion to impose their backdated beliefs and hatred onto others, they are true Christians who live by the teachings and words of Jesus. They've had cancer and arthritis, heart attacks, strokes, and organ failure. These people, even if demons existed, would not have been afflicted by them. So I can assure you that you're only showing your ignorance with that paragraph.
"Martial arts are known for using demonic powers to break boards, etc."
No, they're known for using their focus, their conditioned and honed strength and skills, and a knowledge of the weak points of objects to do awesome-looking stunts.
Nautical999- Vana this is where it will either make you or break you. And this is the time to step out or keep going but if you keep going then you need to stay with it.
Do not read passed this if your decision is to stop
In the name of Jesus the demon behind the homosexuality in this family and/or this woman you are bound with the threefold cord of ecclisiates, You are stripped of all armour and all defenses. You are cut off from all power in and out of the body. You are commanded in the name of Jesus Christ to reveal yourself to this woman in your fullness. And you are commanded to tell her the truth about you and your legal rights. Further more you are commanded in the name of Jesus Christ to tell her the truth about anything else the Holy Spirit has commanded you to speak. Father God i now ask you to place angels around this demon and all others and protect Vana from for a time long enough for her to make up her mind if she will follow you or the demons she has in her. In Jesus name i pray amen. Vana if you have made it this far and all that i have said here has come to pass then you need to choose now. Torment will follow but they can be cast out. You know Jesus and you know He can help all you have to do is ask him into your heart. Also you need to forgive the Christian that has hurt you or caused you to turn from God. Let me know how everything turns out
Everybody else with rude comments and nonproductive crud to speak have some respect for yourself. You only make yourself look bad. If you dispute anything said for now keep it to yourself and stay out of this there will be time later for questions and comments
Vana- Nautical, I hate to break it to you but nothing happened. I read what you wrote, in full. I even read it in good faith, ignoring my urge to scoff at the logic of homosexuality being caused by a demon. I read it with a willing suspension of disbelief. Nothing happened.
There is absolutely nothing inside me that "makes" me gay, it is simply (a small part of) what I am. There is nothing inside me or in my life that causes me torment about this. I do not experience fear or doubt about who I love. I feel nothing but peace for who I am. Most of all, even if I were to become a Christian and accept Jesus into my heart- I'd still be homosexual and I'd still feel the exact same sense of peace I do right now. Nothing would change.
Also, as a side note, there was no Christian who hurt me. The reason I stopped believing in the Christian God was because I actually took the time to read the Bible. I refuse to respect or believe in the God of the Bible, who commands the killing of innocent children and rape of women, among other horrible things, because that God deserves neither my respect or belief. I researched other religions but found that none of them made any more sense than the beliefs I had abandoned. So I decided that, if I was going to believe in anything as far as the spiritual is concerned, I’d have to experience it personally. I never have, so I don’t believe.
while reading that did anything come to your mind? did you feel any uneasiness? Also prior to finding out about you wanting to live a gay lifestyle were you ever sexually assaulted?
Lets say i am right for a second and you found out that there was a curse (which allowed demons inside you )on your family that had predestined you to be gay would you want to get rid of that curse and live curse free? Or would you stay living a cursed life?
i wasn't ignoring you and i do apologize i thought i had posted to you. You state that your experience was unfruitful but it wasn't that demon is now inside you along with the others and you already know this. So why get on here wanting to take this challenge when you know you don't want to get rid of them. You invited them in ( some not ) but it is up to you when you want rid of them. I will not play games and cast them out so you can get 7 times more. Not happening.
Vana- The only thing that stood out at all as I read what you wrote was the fact I have no idea what the "threefold cord of ecclisiates" is or what you mean by the "legal rights" of a demon. Other than those bits of confusion- nada.
Also, I didn't find out I wanted to live a gay lifestyle, I just came the realization that I liked other girls (way back in middle school) Thinking about my childhood, I also realized that I'd had crushes on girls (including my best friend when I was about 6 years old) long before I even knew what a "lesbian" or "gay" was.
But to answer your question- no, I've never been sexually assaulted, molested, or raped. At 22, I'm still a virgin.
If there were some curse that caused my homosexuality, I don't think I'd be particularly worried about getting rid of it. My life as a homosexual is no different than it would be as a heterosexual. I get up, go to work, go to school, go out with my girlfriend, etc. Whether I was going out with a male or female, I'd still have the exact same kind of relationship. I'd probably even go for the same "type" (funny, kind of (or really) nerdy, physically a little on the "thick" side, intelligent, kindhearted, loves animals, curly hair and glasses are a plus)- all the personality characteristics that I'm attracted to transcend gender. My life would be absolutely no different if I were physically attracted to men, rather than women.
The only thing that I’ve ever come across that’s a negative about being a lesbian is discrimination coming from other people (who have no right to be involved in my personal business anyway) But there are people who’d discriminate against me even if I was heterosexual. The fact I am also attracted to people outside my race, ethnicity, and religion (well, the religion they think I should be practicing) is cause for some people to consider our relationship wrong as well. You can’t please everyone, so I just disregard the opinion of the ignorant and the bigots.
My homosexuality hurts no one, so what reason would I have to get rid of it even if it were a “curse”? That would be like wanting to get rid of the curse that causes my hair to be blonde, or my eyes to be blue.
leaving the church because the church is against homosexuality isn't going to change anything. It is still a sin whether you hear it on sunday or not. God still loves you though.
the threefold cord of ecclisiates is in ecclisiates 4:12 which states And if one prevail against him, two shall withstand him: and a threefold cord is not quickly broken.
legal rights are grounds that a demon has to inhabit your body. Which include but are not limited to generational sin, willful sin, and sin against the person.
prior to or around the same time as you having a crush on your friend at the age six what happened?
If you cannot remember then say this prayer
God if you are real i would like for you to reveal to me the legal rights this demon has to my life, In Jesus name i pray amen.
Nautical999- vana by the way God had the demons bring this incident up to lead you to there legal rights. have God reveal the rest to you. He will
Vana- “leaving the church because the church is against homosexuality isn't going to change anything. It is still a sin whether you hear it on sunday or not. God still loves you though”
I didn’t leave the church because it’s against homosexuality (regardless of the fact I don’t think “the church” (at least the denominations who have it right) is actually against homosexuality) I left the church before I realized I was gay.
“legal rights are grounds that a demon has to inhabit your body”’
Even when I was a Christian I didn’t believe demons have any right to my body. I believed that my body was a gift given to me and only me, by God, with exclusive rights of use for me only.
“prior to or around the same time as you having a crush on your friend at the age six what happened?”
I’m not sure I understand what you mean. Nothing happened. I just looked at my friend and thought “Oh. She’s cute.” the same way some of my friends were starting to look at boys and think the same thing.
“by the way God had the demons bring this incident up to lead you to there legal rights”
Nautical999- the incident at the age of six where you were looking at your friend that way
All denominations who are not against homosexuality are not doing as God wants for them to do. I am not against the homosexual and i know that God loves them as well but the sin of homosexuality is an abomination unto God.
Ok lets set some foundation here to see if we are on the same page. Do you believe God created this world? What are your beliefs on creation? Where do you think we go when we die? Do you believe in Satan and his demons and fallen angels? Do you believe in Jesus Christ? What were the issues you left the church for? Please give details.
Luxmelon- Its okay^^
And how could I ever want 'demons' out of me if I don't believe in them? In my honest opinion these 'demons' are negative energies and 'skeletons in your closet' that you refuse to face(or don't know how) and take responsibility for, so you blame them on supernatural beings. There's nothing wrong with being pagan just as there is nothing wrong with being gay. Being gay, in the end is just simply about loving someone. Being pagan, in the end, is about loving and seeing ALL life as divine.
Luxmelon- (my psp cut me off) You can't look at this world in black and white in terms of good and bad. Even the most evil of acts have a good side, but that doesn't excuse the act. What I'm saying is, morality is subjective and this isn't a cookie cutter world. We are nature, nature owns us and when we try to seperate ourselves from it we are quickly cut down to size. Embrace the world and who you are and don't use religion as a mask or crutch. If you don't heed my advice you can never truly live.
Vana- God didn’t bring up that “incident” and neither did demons- I did. I purposely chose to tell you about the crush I had on my friend when I was little to demonstrate that there was evidence of my lesbianism before I even knew what homosexuality was (of course there have been little girls who had crushes on female friends who turned out to be heterosexual, so it can go either way)
“but the sin of homosexuality is an abomination unto God”
So says you. I believed you were wrong about that when I was a Christian and seeing as I’m an atheist now, it’s a bit of a moot point.
Nautical, I’ve done you the common courtesy of listening to you, no matter how much I vehemently disagree with what you’re saying, so I expected the same respect to be shown to me. You’ve disappointed me thoroughly because you‘ve completely ignored statements I’ve previously made.
“Do you believe God created this world?”
I already told you I was an atheist so- no, I don’t believe God created this world. Not your God, not Allah, not Thor, not Athena, not Kali. I don’t believe in any God.
“What are your beliefs on creation?”
Right now I don’t have any opinions on creation. Were I to actually research and study creation, I’m sure I’d go with what has the most scientific backing (Big Bang Theory or Evolution, depending on whether you mean “creation” as “how everything got started” or “how humans got to where we are today”) The only reason I don’t claim those to be true (even though I have a strong inkling they are) is because I haven’t personally looked into them and done the “legwork” to make sure they make sense to me. What I have looked into is the existence of Gods, which I reject. So creation by a God (or many) is definitely not my belief on creation.
“Where do you think we go when we die?”
We don’t go anywhere. After this life has ended- that’s it. The only way we live on is through the things we’ve done and the people we’ve touched.
“Do you believe in Satan and his demons and fallen angels?”
If I don’t believe in God, I’m certainly not going to believe in Satan, demons, or fallen angels.
“Do you believe in Jesus Christ?”
As far as I know, there’s no objective evidence that Jesus ever existed, but that’s not to say he didn’t (record keeping wasn’t a strong point of civilizations back then) If he did exist and preached what the Bible says he preached, that’s great. The world can always use another call for kindness, peace, and brotherhood. But he was just a man, just like all of us (well, "man" as in "human")
“What were the issues you left the church for?”
I already went over that as well and I’d appreciate it if you actually listened this time. The biggest thing that pushed me into atheism is that I actually read the Bible. Stoning people whose “sins” are ridiculously minor, raping women, killing children, owning slaves- these were not the commands of a God I was willing to believe in. To me, it sounded like evil men a long time ago wrote a book, supposedly the Word of God, to excuse and justify their own bad behavior. Much like when a small child is caught with their hand in the cookie jar and claims, “But daddy said I could!”
I realized, without the Bible being true, there was no proof of my God. So I looked into other religions to see if they made any more or less inherent sense to me than the religion I was already in. I came to the conclusion that no religion actually makes sense when looked at from an objective point of view.
“In my honest opinion these 'demons' are negative energies and 'skeletons in your closet' that you refuse to face(or don't know how) and take responsibility for, so you blame them on supernatural beings.”
I agree completely. I once worked with a guy who had a degree in youth ministry. In everything else, he was an all-around very intelligent man. He still claimed, with 100% certainty, that Satan, as a physical being, actually existed (red skin, horns, forked tail- everything) and he was what caused people to sin. I don’t think people need an outside motivation to “sin”. Humanity can sink to depths that can make a sane person cringe at the horror of it all (conversely, mankind can also do wondrously great things for it’s fellow living creatures as well) but we don’t need supernatural beings (on either side of the spectrum) pushing us towards it. I think people who look towards “Satan” and “demons” to explain their own bad behavior are just looking to dodge responsibility.
Nautical999- vana you stated that you had to think about your child hood to remember the incident of the age of six. Who do you think had you remember that if you hadn't before i had brought it up? The harm that homosexuality causes is it brings you farther away from God and ensures your going to hell when you die. Even if you don't believe that you will. I have not ignored your answers but wanted an in depth answer to each question not a surface one. 1) what was the underlying issues why you started studying the bible and where does it state that God had anyone rape anyone else? A lie like that is usually masked by a rape that happened to a person but you have already stated to the contrary so where did it come from? 2)with the creation of the world? Is it likely that you don't know everything and there are things that happen that are beyond comprehension? And if so how far fetched is it to say that there is something out there that created this planet and those around? 3)If there are no demons and fallen angels then what is it that causes the mass destruction of this world? What is this war between good and evil? 4) you agree with luxmelon about these demons being negative energies and skeletons in the closet but what does that negative energy embody? does it have it's own body or can it inhabit others? the skeletons in the closet is a whole different subject.
The things in your closet luxmelon that you don't know how to deal with God has sent people like me to help you deal with them. That closet is in a spiritual world and the trauma that keeps playing over and over again can be broken and that closet cleaned out through the blood of Jesus Christ which washes away all sin and heals the broken hearted. You stated before that there was a lack of meaningful dreams as of late but you failed to mention the dreams you used to have or the ones you have you think there is no meaning to. This will unlock the pain and start you on the path of peace in your life. When you are ready i can help you go into this closet and see what is there. You may already know part but there is more than you think.
Vana- Nautical, you misread what I typed. I said that I remembered, back when I realized I liked other girls, that I had also had a crush on a childhood friend. Note the past tense, as this all happened almost a decade ago.
My original sentence was “Thinking about my childhood, I also realized that I'd had crushes on girls (including my best friend when I was about 6 years old) long before I even knew what a "lesbian" or "gay" was.” Perhaps the present tense at the beginning is what slipped you up. It may be clearer if read like this “I also realized at the time, thinking about my childhood, that I'd had crushes on girls (including my best friend when I was about 6 years old) long before I even knew what a "lesbian" or "gay" was.”
As for homosexuality, you can believe whatever you want about whether it’s a sin, as can I. My only issue comes when you try to use your belief to deny me what is rightfully mine. Also, when someone tells you they are an atheist and you proceed to ask them if they believe in God- you’re not listening.
1) The underlying issue of me having wanted to study my Bible is because that’s what a good Christian is supposed to do. To read the Bible and understand the message God has supposedly given to Christianity. As for rapes in the Bible-
Judges 21: 10-23- God’s chosen people kill the males and non-virgin woman of Jabesh-gilead, steal the virgins and give them to the Benjamites. Since there aren’t enough virgins for all of men, they kidnap girls from Shiloh to forcibly marry (and yes, it’s rape even if they were married) God condones this by omission (not telling them to knock that crap off) and it's presented as a good thing.
Numbers 31: 7-18 & 25-28- More killing of men and non-virgin women. The soldiers doing the killing are to “save for yourselves” the virgin girls. God, speaking through Moses, further specifies how they are to split up the various spoils of war, including dividing said virgin girls up between the men who took part in the battle.
Deuteronomy 21: 10-14- If a woman is a captive and one of the soldiers from the army who took her prisoner is attracted to her, he can take her to be his wife. According to God, all she is to be given is a full month to mourn her mother and father before the solider is allowed to rape her.
Deuteronomy 22: 28-29 & 23-24- any raped, unengaged virgin is forced, by God’s command, to marry her rapist (after said rapist buys her from her father, of course) Also, if a virgin who is engaged gets raped in town and doesn’t scream, according to God, she is to be stoned to death. Granted, God is at least condemning the rape in the first case (more because some guy ruined another man’s property by making his daughter “used goods” than any inherent problem with rape itself) but he certainly has a lot to learn when it comes to victims’ rights.
2) Something? Well, seeing as everything is something, it’s not at all farfetched to believe that “something” like the Big Bang could have happened to start the universe. Now- someone? That’s a different story entirely. If someone has enough power to create existence and everything in it, they easily have the power to sit down at my dining room table and have a chat with me about it, if my belief is so important to them.
3) There is no war between good and evil. Every person the inclination to do good things (barring, perhaps, sociopaths) and the inclination to do bad things. Depending on that person’s personality, environment, upbringing, beliefs, morals, and a million other variables that change from moment to moment- they may do good things or bad things. Or, as is most often the case- both, depending on the situation. But none of that stimuli comes from any supernatural creatures.
4) We obviously have very different definitions of “negative energy”. For instance, if I’m cut off in traffic by someone going 50 mph in a 35 mph zone, I’m probably going to think, “I hope that guy gets a speeding ticket” (Actually, no- my initial reaction is probably going to be “I hope that guy hits a telephone pole” but that’s because I hate idiots who can’t drive) To me, that wish for the other driver to have something unpleasant happen to him because he annoyed me is a type of “negative energy/vibe/whatever”. But it’s certainly not something caused by any external entity. It just stems from my lack of patience when it comes to bad drives.
Luxmelon- vana: Heh, about your youth pastor, everytime I hear about someone that believes that 'Satan' looks like the big ol' red pointy-tailed stereotype I always think of the South Park Satan. Then I giggle >_>
As for negative energies, the way you described seeing them is exactly what I meant by it too. I honestly and openly look inside myself and know that even as peaceful as I seem to be on the outside, I've wanted to strangle people before. I've wanted, at some time or another, to throw someone under the bus so to speak, to save my own hide. There have been times I've lied just to lie. But I take responsibility for my darker tendances, try to do better next time, don't act on my crazy first thoughts, ect. Instead of saying that something else is making me feel this way. That's just bullshit, because everyone has those urges. It's not sin, it's human nature. What makes the difference is how much control you have over yourself. People that don't take responsibility for these things wind up being like that crazy chick that drowned her kids in the bathtub 'cause God told her to. Ugh.
Nautical999: As for my dreams, as many humans experience, I'll dream things before they happen in complete color, just like I'm there. Sometimes it's about me, sometimes about other people. I once saw my dog get hit by a car in my dreams then a month later saw it again, every detail replicated exactly. I once dreamed my friend's fillings fell out just to watch it happen the next day- looked painful lol- Once watched myself blow up in a car fire, went and got a fuel leak repaired the next week only to have my battery speark and set my engine on fire a few months later (if that leak hadn't been fixed it would have exploded- that leak was really bad according to the mechanic guys when I got it fixed. They said they could smell it through the air conditioning when they'd turn it on.), ect. As for my normal stress or daily life dreams, they'd always be a lot less detailed and my sleep wouldn't be as deep as when I'd have a serious dream, thats how I could tell the difference. I'm certainly not the only one that has ever experienced any type of clairvoyance, Thousands of people have the moment of knowing whos calling before they answer the phone or knowing what someone's about to say before they say it, stuff like that. And I never said I had any things in my closet, I was referring to you. I face the things- as I stated above- that so many people would keep locked inside. Maybe this leviathan experience thingy you experienced wasn't a demon but just something from your subconcious?
My life is certainly peaceful. I help people and animals out everyday. I am always trying to bring a smile to people that are down and by doing all I can for others, I make myself smile too. I'm no Mother Tereasa but I am always looking for self improvement. My pagan spirituality helps keep me connected to the world around me and makes me feel more whole in this crazy industrial world of death and discrimination. You do know that Christianity has done much more harm to this world than good, right? Not to say that there aren't great Christians out there that don't do good things, I've been helped by several myself. I just know that the discrimination that the homosexual community, all religions other than Protestantism, women, mixed couples, other races back in the day, ect. face are all derived from the Christian community for the most part. The enviroment is in SHAMBLES because the Bible said you had dominion over the Earth. Everything is taken for granted because this Rapture is supposed to come and make everything null and void....which hasn't happened yet and probably won't. People die because they don't believe the same things that the other people do and kids and peole are bullied for coming from a different religious family or not agreeing with the Christian kids. I know- I was one of those kids. How can you say you have peace through something like this? How can you say this will ever bring me peace? I'm not here to kiss some invisible guy in the sky's ass and hope everything will be ok- sorry. I'm here to stand up and do something about it. And you may think that you are helping people- and wanting to sure is noble, but maybe you should start with yourself. Not everything you do is right just because you can put Jesus's name in front of it. Get real. No offense....you don't seem too bad of a person. Don't blow me off automatically as not knowing what I'm saying- think about it- really think about it...maybe I'm right?
Nautical999- 1) if you look in verse 10 of judges 21 the congregation is who sent the twelve thousand troops to kill and take for the tribe of benjamin the virgins not God. The tribe of benjamin refused to take the wives in verse14 and in verse 19 the congregation again made a way for the tribe of benjamin to have wives. Neither solution was made by God. Had they sought God and waited for his answer they would have had a different outcome. in times past marriages were fixed for the parents and did not matter what the children wanted. The tribe of benjamin picked the wives they wanted and begged for favor in the site of there families.also if you look in verse 25 the last verse in this whole book it sums up the tragecy of having judges rule over the people as opposed to a king. the people did what they thought was right in there own eyes. Kind of like what America does now. 2) in numbers 31 the israelites were told to gfo to war and avenge the the children of israel. They were supposed to kill all of the medianites however the captains had brought back the women and children and all the spoils of war which in those days was the custom. For all armies. when they were brought back Moses allowed the virgins to live. The men were killed so they did not grow up and try to avenge there people if you read 1kings 11:14-40 you will see why this was that way 3) again it was customary to take the women as captives and as was customary back then even if it was not a woman of captivity the woman had no say so in who she would marry. Thats the way life was. 4) as far as this verse it is very controvercial as the others i admit but back then they were concidering the fact that if a woman were to yell it would have been heard. they did not take into concideration the man making it so she could not yell. They figured that if a woman said nothing and only said it when they were caught she was a willing participant and just saying rape. These were laws that were done away with with Jesus. we are no longer under the law but grace.
if concidering the big bang where did the two objects come from that colided into each other and started the whole thing. How did it colide and just by chance everything is at the perfect distance from the sun and and each other. How is it that earth is all that it is? Look how beautiful this earth is beauty does not come from chaos.
if a sociopath does not have the inclination to do good then what pushes him to do evil?
a negative energy is a thing a tangible thing. a thought is not it's a thought.
Vana- @ luxmelon
"I honestly and openly look inside myself and know that even as peaceful as I seem to be on the outside, I've wanted to strangle people before."
Just as a little related anecdote- over the summer I did an altruistic kidney donation. This means I gave an organ to a complete stranger, getting absolutely nothing in return, which most people consider a good and highly charitable thing to do. However, during almost the entire hour-long drive up the hospital (both times, since the first time the kidney recipient backed out *eyeroll*) on the highway, I was vehemently encouraging my mother (who was driving me up) to run other people off the road because they were driving so ridiculously. To me, that pretty much perfectly sums up the fact that you can have the impulse to do bad things but you don’t have to act on them, AND you can still be a good person, even if you are a "sinner".
There’s no need to blame what is human nature on demons and curses. No need to use “It’s not really me, so it’s not my fault” as an excuse for why you can’t change. If you have a character flaw or a negative thought/impulse- accept it and let it go or fix it. When people build their flaws up and give them power via some otherworldly, external source that supposedly causes them- those people are just looking for an excuse to dodge responsibility when they “lose” to these “creatures” and act on their darker impulses.
Vana- @ Nautical
1) You’re incorrect. The Benjamites did take the virgin “spoils of war“- there simply weren’t enough of them for all the Benjamite men, so they needed more. Judges 21: 14 states “So the Benjamites returned at that time and were given the women of Jabesh Gilead who had been spared. But there were not enough for all of them.” And the tribe of Benjamin didn’t simply pick out their wives- they hide in the bushes to ambush and kidnap women who were coming out to dance at the annual festival. And you’ll notice in my original post about this, I never said God told them to do so (though I don’t believe for a second that had they waited for his answer there would have been a different outcome), I said that God’s chosen people did this. His chosen people who he’d had no compulsions about showing up in front of before when they did something he didn’t like. He certainly didn’t say anything about the kidnapping and raping of these women- thus why I said he condoned it by omission.
2) You’ve done nothing to refute my point. The virgin girls were saved and given to the soldiers. Why do you think it was only virgin girls? Because they’re better hackey-sack players? And I don’t care why these girls were raped- nothing justifies it or the fact that God is A-ok with dividing them up like livestock.
3) It doesn’t matter that this was just “the way life was”. If God said it was okay to rape a woman, even if that was just the thing to do back then, God is wrong. Also- rape apologists are disgusting.
4) You keep saying “‘they’ were considering”, “‘they’ did not take into consideration”, and “‘they’ figured”- who is this “they”? These are commands given from God to Moses. Are you saying God couldn’t foresee that a man can physically stop a woman from crying out during a rape? God didn’t consider that there might not be someone around to hear a cry for help, even in the city? God couldn’t figure out that there might be some cases where a cry for help was heard but the people who heard it were too afraid to do anything to stop the rape? And you wonder why I don’t believe in this God?
“These were laws that were done away with with Jesus. we are no longer under the law but grace.”
It doesn’t matter if they’re no longer applicable- the fact that God ever gave out these commands in the first place is enough to make him a disgusting excuse for a “just” and “loving” creator.
Regarding the Big Bang Theory- as I said before, I haven’t looked into it so I’m not going to address those questions. If someone else more knowledgeable wants to, they’re welcome to answer instead. I will say that I’m not sure what you mean by “perfect distance” though, because it’s only “perfect” since we’re on Earth. If we’re looking at it from a human-centric point of view, Venus isn’t the perfect distance and neither is Mars, nor any other planet in our galaxy. If God made us and we’re all that there is- why make the rest of the galaxy at all? That’s just wasted space. Unless we’re supposed to eventually travel to other planets, in which case we have to take into account that almost every single planet that we know of is inhospitable to humans without major changes and terraforming. Which means that God made far more planets which weren’t a “perfect distance” than ones he made that were. And who says the Earth is all that there is? (other than religious people who like to feel "special") If the universe is infinite, then it's statistically probable that there's something else out there on another planet, though that universal vastness makes it highly unlikely we’ll ever come across them.
“if a sociopath does not have the inclination to do good then what pushes him to do evil?”
The same thing that pushes everyone else to do evil- selfishness, greed, pettiness, ignorance, self-advancement, kicks and giggles, and every other negative motivation under the sun.
“a negative energy is a thing a tangible thing. a thought is not it's a thought.”
Then I don’t believe that “negative energy” exists as you define it.
Luxmelon- vana: I like you We should be friends, we really think alike^^ And who the hell backs out from recieving a kidney?
@ Nautical999: Um, A sociopath is the way he is because he has a personality disorder of the worst kind. Antisocial Personality Disorder is the name for what sociopaths have, and it's been known to be hereditary, caused by abuse or neglect in the childhood, and some scientists are looking into DNA- some found some males born with an extra Y chromosome frequently develop this disorder. Many crimes people commit can be traced back to depression or obsession or mental ills, most of these not being the person's fault at all. But it's not demons....it's the people around them, thier bodies, and what I mentioned above- the inability to deal with life's problems or transfer the blame onto someone or something else.
And I really don't care how the Earth was made. No one could really know unless they'd been there lol, and well I'm concerned about now, not the past. But to throw your question right back at you...Look at the human body and all it's complexity. It's far from perfect, but it's amazing. How can you look at this and think it was made from dust? Or that women were made from men? Women are so different lol. And the rib thing doesn't even make sense considering women and men have the same number of ribs. And also, it's hard to feel like we are that different from other life forms when certain species of primates have 97% of the same DNA that we do. There is so much wrong with the biblical creation story if you look at it.......my imagination just can't stretch that far to see it as true.
Nautical999- i never said that it is the demons to blame for what a person does. everybody has freewill. however if a person has demons they will feel the ERGE stronger to sin than someone without demons. it is a very good thing to donate your kidney i think everyone who donates of themselves like that is definately a good person. However there are many good people who will go to hell because they didn't choose to follow God.
now as far as this road incident was the emotion rage or anger? both are names of demons but are different ones.
ok we can argue the point of the marriages back then forever. If you consider a fixed marriage rape then every marriage up to the recent past was rape. not only the ones the israelites were in but every marriage in the world. Shoot even today there are fixed marriages in some cultures. i read anothere translation of the judges text and yes you were right i read it wrong. RAPE is one of the worst things a man can do to a woman i do agree i am not advocating rape, i think all rapists should go to prison for life because a rape can harm a woman for the rest of her life if she does not forgive the man. And the forgiveness is not for the man that did it but for the woman herself to be able to move on and heal from the incident. The reason why it was virgin girls is because of the soul tie that a woman would have if she was not a virgin. The women of the peoples that were not israelites back then were pagan and worshipped many gods. When doing that that allows demons to come into someone, When you have sex with that someone it allows there demons into you. God new this and so did moses and the rest of the people.
if you take venus and move it it would throw the whole solar system out of wack. Therefore it is set perfect where it is.
if a sociopath claims that the reason why they did what they did is because the devil had them do it and they explain what this demon looked like and the world in which it lives and it is the same description that hundreds of thousands have described how can you refute that there is atleast some validity to a spiritual world? lets stay on this for a minute
there are too many likenesses of of every mental illness person as to what they see and hear and feel for it not to be more than some chemical imbalance.i could show you so many things that would make your head spin. we can walk into the worst mental hospital in the world and you can pick out ten people and we can talk to them and they see the same thing inside there minds. Of course with some variance but the same things. Then we can go to another one and they will see the same as the first. There is more to it than chemical imbalances. There is a spiritual world and there are demons that are attacking us to keep us away from God.
as far as being made from dust? How is that more far fetched than a big bang and boom we're here? or that we came from monkeys? where did monkeys come from? who created them for us to evolve? No matter where you start humans started somewhere something was molded and we were made. that something was the dust of the ground and the potter of the clay was God. also not every woman was made from man only eve.
if you would give me a timeline of the events in your life. as far as you can remember and include all things significant even your first experience with a woman no details but an approximate date if possible.
Luxmelon- well I do know enough about evolution to know that according to the theory we didn't come from monkeys, we just share ancestors, evolved on the same evolutionary line, I think we just got a head start.
And maybe this sounds kinda simple...but maybe these prisoners heard others use these excuses and use them themselves to save thier own butts?
As for spiritual things, I'm not saying that I don't believe that there isn't more t o life that meets the eye. I'm a firm believer of the Astral Plane (look it up)
Luxmelon- I just don't believe that there's some sort of black and white battle of good vs. evil lol. And if these people see things, doesn't relate it to your religion. There are other beliefs out there that aren't of the Abrahamic god (this god is the same god in Judism, Islam and Christianity) that make more sense. But to each their own. If the belief in demons somehow makes a person feel better...thats okay, as long as that belief isn't pushed onto me.
Vana- @ luxmelon- Definitely should be friends- great minds thinking alike and all that ;D
Oi, yeah. I originally asked for a young-ish recipient and the first one I got was a 20 year old. So, on the scheduled day of surgery, I get to the hospital at the crack of dawn, go to pre-op, get an I.V. put in (blowing 3 veins in the process), and wait. And wait. And wait. Three hours after I arrive (and 1 hour after I was supposed to have gone into surgery) the head surgeon comes over and says, “Your recipient is having a panic attack and wants to talk to someone we can’t get on the phone.” Oh course, my response was somewhere along the lines of “lol whaaa?” and “I’m going to strangle this person”. Long story short, the recipient backed out of the surgery, so I’ve been told, because they were worried that they wouldn’t be able to take care of the kidney properly. So I had to come back 5 days later to donate to another person... and blow another 2 veins getting in an I.V. (that was probably what I was most annoyed about since I hate needles and have horrible veins)
"however if a person has demons they will feel the ERGE stronger to sin than someone without demons"
Which reduces a person culpability when they give into their urges to sin.
“However there are many good people who will go to hell because they didn't choose to follow God.”
If God sends people he knows are good to eternal suffering and damnation just because they don’t kiss his butt (or they happen to live in a place where they’ve never heard of your God) then God is, how you might say, a dick.
“now as far as this road incident was the emotion rage or anger?”
It’d be the demon of “Annoyance” if anything. Especially since, right after telling my mom to run people off the road, we got into a discussion about the best music to run people off the road to (my vote- Tran-Siberian Orchestra’s “Christmas Eve (Sarajevo)”) I'm not talking overwhelming rage or anger here. Most people have quick little instances of mean and petty thoughts but they let them go. And then make jokes about them (at least my friends and family do) No need to make it more serious or complicated than that.
“If you consider a fixed marriage rape then every marriage up to the recent past was rape”
I’m aware there’s a murky area as far as arraigned marriages and consent go, but I wouldn’t characterize them all as rape. I would reserve that label for specific instances of when a woman said “no” and her husband forced her to have sex anyway. However, there’s a huge difference between an arraigned marriage and some army slaughtering your entire family and everyone in your city and then carrying you away to be raped under the guise of “marriage”. Ditto being ambushed, kidnapped, and carried away. In the case of the women from Shiloh, it specifically says in the text that their fathers DIDN’T give them away to be married to the men of Benjamin, so you can’t even claim that was an arraigned marriage (neither were women who were “spoils of war” considered married as part of an arraigned marriage through their family, since the men “marrying” them killed their families)
“can harm a woman for the rest of her life if she does not forgive the man. And the forgiveness is not for the man that did it but for the woman herself to be able to move on and heal from the incident.”
Yeah, I’m calling B.S. on that. Rapists don’t need to be forgiven. The rape itself is horrific and more than enough to “harm a woman for the rest of her life” whether she forgives her rapist or not. The thought that women need to forgive men who sexually violate them, for their own good, is ridiculous and patently false. If a woman wishes to forgive her attacker and that makes her feel better, that’s fine. But in absolutely no way, shape, or form should someone be made to feel like forgiving her attacking is something she “needs” to do. Also, you can move on and heal from a rape without forgiving an attacker.
“women of the peoples that were not israelites back then were pagan and worshipped many gods. When doing that that allows demons to come into someone”
Virgins would have worshipped the pagan gods alongside the rest of their family, so by your logic, they’d already have demons inside them.
“if you take venus and move it it would throw the whole solar system out of wack”
What do you mean “out of wack”? If you’re not looking at it from a human-centric POV, there’s no “right” or “wrong” way for a solar system to be arraigned. Not to mention that things do get pushed “out of wack”. Celestial bodies do occasionally collide and either throw off the orbits of one or both objects, or destroy one or both objects. And stars do die out or go supernova, which I'd assume mucks things up in their galaxies.
“if a sociopath claims that the reason why they did what they did is because the devil had them do it… how can you refute that there is atleast some validity to a spiritual world”
That’s easy- these people don’t live in a bubble. Other people’s claims of spiritual occurrences, as well as the wide-spread influence of the Bible, Torah, and Koran (along with other religious texts) which also contain accounts of supernatural beings, give people who are looking for such things a source to draw upon. For non-religious based examples of this (well, mostly non-religious) you might want to look into something called “mass hysteria”. Commonly believed (as well as a bout of ergot poisoning) to have caused the Salem Witch Trials.
“if you would give me a timeline of the events in your life”
Ok, though I’ve had a fairly uneventful life-
6 yo (1992)- crush on my best female friend (not really significant but on-topic) 7 yo (’93)- moved cities 8 or 9 yo (’94 or ‘95)- crush on another female best friend 13 yo (’99)- realized I was gay, kissed a girl for the first time, and had a “girlfriend” for the first time (insomuch as anyone that age can have a true boyfriend or girlfriend) 14 yo (2000)- another girlfriend, still confined to kissing 15 yo (‘01)- had a female friend with whom I went a little bit farther (heavy petting stuff), my parents divorced 16 yo (’02)- changed high schools due to threats from other students because of my sexuality 18 yo (‘05)- graduated high school, started college, got my first job 20 yo (’07)- went out a couple times with a co-worker, nothing sexually 21 yo (‘08)- dated another co-worker who was a Christian and wanted to wait until marriage to have sex (yes, there are even lesbian Christians and ones who want to have sex within a marriage) 22 yo (’09)- dated another girl I just wasn’t interested in having sex with, who recently moved away
There, make of it what you will.
i know exactly what you are talking about and it is a sin to do that. Do you know who your guide is?
Of course you will refute that so i challenge you to this. The next time you astral look who your guide is and say this in the name of Jesus Christ you are commanded to reveal your true identity. tell me what happens as far as evolution if we just came along the same evolutionary line where did the line begin?
i am a man and for your information and all concerned i am an open book. The reason why this subject has so much more meaning to me is because i used to be bi. My feelings spawned after i was sexually molested by a 60 ish man at the age of 13. I had convinced myself that since i didn't run away i enjoyed it. I went immediately to my mother and told her what had happened and she called the cops he was arrested and then he committed suicide in jail. For so long i didn't have any closure and all i did was start acting out, i started getting arrested started steeling and robbing and everything thing else. when i went in the army i got kicked out after making it to my pds at fort bragg 82nd airborne for failure to adapt to the army life. I got out and did some more robberies and ended up in prison where i did 4 years. three of which was in the hole for fighting. While i was in my last year i turned back to God and eventually forgave the man who had done this. My life hasn't been peaches and cream but it has been so much better than what it was. i actually have peace in my own skin. There are many other things that have happened throughout my life but these are on subject so i thought i might share them. As i said before i am not against the person who is sinning just the sin itself. God can take this away. He has for me and can for you as well. My molestation affected me traumaticly for 11 years and i can honestly say today that it does not affect me negatively at all these days.
Sice usually i am able to speak to someone either face to face or over the phone these few questions would have been done in a matter of minutes so lets start with a list of questions we have and i know that some are already answered so you can skip them and move on. When the word bondage is used lets use the homosexuality as the bondage.
******** BIG, LONG-ASS QUIZ HAS BE DELETED TO SAVE SPACE *******
And I’ll be answering the questions below in a separate post.
Nautical999- luxmelon you can take the test as well. I still will not cast anything out of you at this time but a background of you will help me to decide where to help you at.
Also you never did answer about past dreams. You can email me as well the details and i promise i will not post anything of them here. I would never do that.
Vana- Nautical, I’m very sorry to hear about what you went through as a child but you didn’t “used to be bi”. You either were bisexual and have now repressed that part of yourself because you’ve deemed it “wrong” and a sin, or, as is probably more likely, being molested seriously messed with your head (as it tends to do) and you were never bi in the first place.
Sexual orientation isn’t something you can change- it is innate and you, like everyone else, were just born wired a certain way. Your sexual expression, however, can be warped by things like molestation or rape, or even cultural pressure. I know two girls, who are heterosexuals, who only have relationships (romantic but non-sexual, in these two cases) with other women. Both of them were horribly victimized, sexually, by men in their childhood and cannot stand to have relationships with men to this day because of it. Though their sexual orientation is heterosexual, their sexual expression is lesbian.
People have sexual relationships that don’t conform to their sexual orientation all the time. After all, how many men (conservative preachers and politicians usually… funny how that works) with wives and children later come out as gay? They felt pressured by society to get married and start a family and so exhibited sexual expressions that don’t fit their innate sexual orientation.
All I’m saying is that even if you had relationships with men, that doesn’t necessarily make you a bisexual/homosexual. Sexual orientation is just who you find sexually attractive, not who you’re sleeping with.
Also, your bad behavior had nothing to do with your supposed bisexuality. I've never stolen anything (I never even shop-lifted as a kid), the only "fight" I ever got into was when I was 12, I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't do drugs, as a virgin I'm not promiscuous, etc (in fact, if it weren’t for the lesbianism and the fact I’m an atheist, I’d probably be the perfect little True Christian ™) So while, yes, you obviously had a lot of issues stemming from your molestation, you shouldn’t throw bisexuality in with all those other, actual bad behaviors because they’re not related, even if they were all caused by the moestation.
And holy crap- that’s a lot of questions. Maybe we should start a thread in the forums (probably under “Preaching and Worship”) to cover this, if that’s allowed? I feel bad using the main page essentially as a message board, especially as we’ve gotten so far off topic. Either way, I’ve got class tonight (Yay, Chemistry!) so I probably won’t be able to answer until after that. Feel free to start a thread and shoot me a link in the meantime.
Luxmelon- nautical I did answer you about my dreams, did you just miss it? o.O
Nautical999- luxmelon i missed it the only thing i got was the part where you said you didn't have any new significant ones
you said As for my normal stress or daily life dreams, they'd always be a lot less detailed and my sleep wouldn't be as deep as when I'd have a serious dream, thats how I could tell the difference
these are the dreams i want to know about. These are the ones that will unlock the hurt and pain in ones life.
have you had dreams of yourself at a different age? or even of things you can tell are in the past but you don't remember bring there for it?
No, I remember those times in my life. There's just nothing about them that seemed significant. From 9-13 I went to school and played with my friends. At 17 I was busy with school (I was duel-enrolled in high school and college at the time) and getting things in order to graduate.
Have you seen the original post that spawned this whole discussion? It's... *shifty eyes* interesting, to say the least.
Okay Nautical, I’ve spent far more of my life on this than I should have but I’m done. I will say that I don’t know who came up with this quiz but it's pretty hilarious if you’re looking for signs of some kind of demonic possession and/or supernatural issue. It asks you about things that are universal occurrences- they happen to every single person who is living now, has ever lived in the past, or will be alive in the future. I don't see how you can read much into those things. But anyway, here's my answers to the quiz about my homosexuality "bondage"-
Part I: The bondage
1. When did this bondage start?
Well, seeing as sexual orientation is something you’re born with- when I was born. If you’re talking about when I can first remember liking a girl- about 6 years old.
2. Was there any unusual things that took place (or you did) when this bondage started?
3. If this bondage started when you were a child: Do you have ancestors who have suffered from a similar kind of bondage?
My grandmother is a lesbian and my older, half-brother is gay, if that counts.
4. What kind of bondage are you facing? (Fears, depression, voices in your mind, mental illness, physical illness, mental torment, spiritual torment, etc.. Please be as detailed as possible.)
Apparently, liking girls.
5. What are all the things that have impacted your life? (Parent's death, trauma, a certain situation that changed your life, anything that 'changed' you.)
My entire identity is made up of little things throughout my life that have shaped me, just like everyone else. My parents divorced when I was a teen but that didn’t change me, it just made my life a little better.
Part II: Your ancestor's background
1. Do you have ancestors who have struggled with similar problems or bondages?
Struggled with? No. Exhibited? Yes.
2. Did your bondage start as a child and appear to have no reason to be there?
Well, seeing as there’s no real reason for any particular person to be gay or straight, I have to give a reluctant “yes” here. However, seeing as it’s been purposed that homosexuality might act as a naturally occurring method of population control, homosexuality itself probably has a good reason for occurring.
3. Do you have siblings who suffer from similar bondages or oppression?
My half-brother is gay.
Part III: Soul ties
1. Have you been involved with extramarital sex? Are you attracted to an ex-lover? Is he or she a good/godly influence for you?
2. Have you been divorced?
3. Do you feel an unusual attraction to a past boyfriend, girlfriend or lover (who is obviously not right for you)?
4. Do you let anybody dominate, control, or make your choices you?
No, I’m far too obstinate for that.
5. Have you ever formed a blood covenant with another person? (Blood brothers, etc.)
6. Have you ever made vows or agreements with somebody in effort to strengthen the relationship or commit yourself to each other?
No. Unless you count pinky-promises of “Friends Forever” in the 5th grade as a “vow”.
7. Do you see any ungodly relationships in your past where gifts were exchanged? (Are you holding onto something that was given to you from somebody you had an adultery with, etc.)
8. Have you ever had ungodly relations with an animal?
Ha! If you’re alluding to what I think you’re alluding to- no. I love my cats, but not like that.
9. Do you have any pictures in your possession of somebody whom you may have an ungodly soul tie with? (A picture of you with somebody you had an adultery with, etc.)
Part IV: Relationship with parents
1. What do you think of your parents?
My mother is kind and tries to give to others as best she can, sometimes a little too much (she has co-dependence issues) My father is an idiot- he smokes pot and married his mistress. I’m not overly fond of many of his actions, though he’s probably got his own trauma and reasons for doing what he does.
2. How would you explain your childhood?
Normal, I guess. I grew up white, lower-middle class, Christian, and with a married mother and father. I was smart child who wasn’t very intellectually stimulated in school (re: I was bored out of my mind) I played softball on the All Stars team, was awarded 1st runner up in the 4H’s poetry contest, and got good grades.
3. Where you close to your parents while growing up? If not, why?
I was very close to my parents when I was younger. As I grew into my teens, we became less close. That was mainly due to their immature behavior and my relative maturity (let’s just say sometimes it felt like I was the parent and they were the children)
4. How would you explain your relationship with your parents? Was it good, bad or very cold?
My relationship with my mother has grown much stronger since I was a teen. My father and I had a falling out over his actions during my parents' divorce but in the last year or so, we have reconciled and are slowly mending fences.
5. Did you feel rejection from your parents?
6. Was either of your parents overly passive or controlling?
My mother was a bit of a doormat when I was younger. My father alternated between controlling and passive. He’s now very passive.
7. Has either of your parents been divorced? Remarried? Are your parents divorced?
My parents are divorced from each other, obviously. It was my mother’s first divorce and she hasn’t remarried. It was my father’s 2nd divorce and he has remarried again.
8. How would you describe your relationship with your siblings growing up?
Pretty much non-existent. My brother is 10 years older than me and moved out when I was 7, so we never interacted that much.
Part V: Rejection and abuse
1. Were your parents married when you were conceived? Were you the right sex? Did your parents not want you, or want you to be different (gender, etc.) in any way? If so, explain.
Yes, yes, and no. My parents were married five years when I was conceived, they were trying for a baby, and they wanted to girl.
2. Did you feel rejected as a child? As an adult? If so, by whom? Explain.
3. Did you face abuse? What kind (emotional, physical, sexual, etc.) and by whom?
Not really. My father and I had some epic fights but it was fairly mutual.
4. Have you faced rejection from your peers, classmates, friends or those around you?
Yes, for classmates. I had to switch high schools because of threats from my classmates over my being lesbian. However, that’s their flaw and doesn’t reflect on me at all.
5. Have you ever been put down, belittled, or made fun of? If so, by whom? Explain.
Of course, everyone has. Classmates. Everything from “You have cooties” in pre-school to “f*cking faggot” in high school. Just like everybody else.
6. If you have faced rejection or abuse, how did you respond? Do you feel you are still paying a price for it? If so, how?
Switched schools and got the hell over it. Their hatred is their problem, not mine.
7. How do you respond to rejection right now?
Well, I haven’t been rejected in quite a while but I imagine and hope I’d accept it with grace and a sense of humor.
8. Do you reject yourself (self-rejection)? If so, why and in what ways?
Part VI: Unforgiveness or bitterness
1. Is there anybody you feel edgy around? (Don't like them, feel anything in your heart against them, etc.)
Possibly my step-mother. She did contribute to my parent’s divorce, after all. Plus she’s just an annoying person.
2. Do you have anything against anybody? In other words, is there anybody that you have a hard time demonstrating the love of Christ to?
I’m going to assume this is a “N/A” question as I don’t demonstrate the “love of Christ” to anyone.
3. Has anybody wronged you that you haven't forgiven from your heart (thoughts, feelings, emotions, etc.)?
I don’t think forgiveness is a requirement for getting over being wronged. I do hold people responsible for how they've treated me in the past and don't gloss over it. Neither do I expect or demand forgiveness from anyone I may have wronged.
4. How do your view your siblings, parents, coworkers, etc.? Do you have any hard feelings against them?
I’ve already gone over my parents. My brother is annoying because he’s irresponsible. My co-workers are just fine.
5. Do you make a habit of blaming yourself for everything? Do you obsess over your mistakes and feel unusually guilty for them?
6. Do you deeply regret things that you've done in your past? Could you kick yourself over something you've done in your past? If so, explain.
Not really. We all have little mistakes that we think, “If I could do it over again, I would do X instead of Y” but nothing big.
Part VII: Personality
1. Are you a very positive or negative person?
I’m a realist. Nowadays, that tends to be a negative person, but I’m getting more optimistic (Happened back in the beginning of November last year. Right around, say, the 4th. I wonder what could have happened around then to make me think perhaps things might be changing for the better?)
2. Do you feel confident in yourself? If so, why?
Yes. Why wouldn’t I be confident? I’m intelligent, kind, loyal, responsible, have a sense of humor- there’s no reason not to be confident. Unless we’re talking about singing or drawing. I’ll admit I suck at those.
3. Do you have a low self esteem? If so, why?
4. Are you domineering or controlling? If so, to whom, and in what ways? Why?
I’m strong willed and tend to be a know-it-all so I can be a little overbearing at times, though I think it’d be a stretch to call it “domineering”. More like I tend to point out to people how their stupid schemes are going to end in utter failure.
5. Are you an achiever? (A go-getter) If so, in what ways?
Maybe? I’d probably be an achiever (well, overachiever) if it weren’t for my chronic procrastinating. I do get good grades and all but it’s achieved without a whole lot of effort on my part.
6. Do you feel that you are always right and that if everybody did everything your way, this world would be a better place to live?
Of course. I don’t know many people who don’t think themselves to be right and wish the rest of the world would agree with them.
7. How do you treat your children? Husband? Are you controlling, passive, etc.?
8. Do you like people to 'look at you' (as in receive attention)?
I’m a little on the shy side, so I don’t seek out attention.
Part VIII: Emotional health
1. Do you strive to feel accepted? If so, how does this affect your lifestyle? By whom do you want to feel accepted?
I like to feel accepted by those I find it worth being accepted by- mostly my friends. I’m not going to be friends with someone I don’t consider a “good” and “healthy” person and a positive influence, or want to be accepted by people who don’t fit those qualifications. It doesn’t affect my lifestyle all that much though.
2. Are you always stressed out? If so, why?
No. I can get high-strung at times but give me my MP3 player and a nice comfy bed and I'm golden.
3. Do you feel hurt? If so, by whom/what and why?
4. Do you feel good about yourself? If not, why?
5. Do you feel depressed? If so, why? When did it start? Did your parents or grandparents struggle with depression? If so, then do you know when it started and why? Do you have siblings who are also struggling? Do you feel your depression is rational or irrational?
6. Do you struggle with fears? If so, what is it that you fear? (Fear of heights, dying, being hopeless, failure, never marrying, etc.)
Ha! I do have a few phobias. I used to be afraid of needles, until I did my kidney donation and got poked so many times that I’m now desensitized to them. I’m afraid of heights and spiders, and I don’t have a full freak-out phobia of dogs, but I’m not a fan. That one probably comes from having been bitten by one when I was little.
7. Do you worry about things? What things do you worry about? Why?
Doesn’t everyone? I worry about money and being financially secure, which is normal in these tough economic times. I worry about getting good grades, though that’s mostly an empty fear as I’m consistently on the Dean’s List with 4.0s. I worry sometimes about future job security but, again, that’s a pretty normal fear.
8. Do you struggle with anger? Do you have a short temper?
I don’t have a short temper but I am temperamental. That is, things easily annoy me but I never act on that annoyance with violence or anything ridiculous like that.
9. Do you have any insecurities? If so, explain.
Hmmm… I don’t like to shake hands with people because my palms get sweaty (and yet, they are ice cold) in social situations. Other than that, not really.
10. Do you feel any self-pity or feel sorry for yourself? Have you ever felt this? If so, why?
Again, this is a no-brainer- of course I’ve felt sorry for myself before. I can't think of a specific time but I'm sure there has been one. My life's going well right now though.
11. Do you find it easy to hate people? If so, over what kinds of things would a person have to do to make you hate them?
Yes, but then again I tend to toss around the word “hate” a lot more lightly than some other people. Beyond the obvious people who need to die in a fire (rapists, murderers, child & animal abusers, drunk drivers, etc) I also hate people who- Drive like idiots Bring babies into a movie theater (or little kids into R-rated movies) Don’t spay and/or neuter their pets and so contribute to the animal overpopulation problem Cut in line Don’t teach their children to be polite and not act like a bunch of rotten brats in public places Cheat Do drugs Stop in the middle of a grocery store isle to chit-chat with someone they haven’t seen for awhile Go grocery shopping with their young children at 2 o’clock in the morning (especially if they’re also yelling at their children for whining and being cranky) Try to take away or deny other people their rights on the basis of something that’s none of their business in the first damn place Are intolerant of things that don’t hurt anyone else
Actually, I should probably stop there because this could go on a while. I have a lot of pet peeves.
12. Do you have any irrational feelings? If so, what are they?
I’m sure I do because everyone has some irrational feeling at one time or another but I can’t think of any off the top of my head.
13. Do you feel like something is wrong with you?
14. Do you feel excessively guilty over anything? Is this a continual problem?
15. Are you very confused and forgetful? (Beyond the normal)
16. Are you aware of any emotional wounds that have affected you?
Of course, everyone’s had something bad hurt them at one time or another. Mine would probably center around the harassment I’ve experienced for my sexuality. However, I moved beyond that a while ago so I don’t think it currently affects me.
17. Have you ever been deeply embarrassed over something? What was it?
When I was in kindergarten I fell in a mud puddle on the playground at school. That was pretty embarrassing.
18. Have you been in or are currently experiencing very difficult (depressing) circumstances which may cause you to feel hopeless or depressed?
Part IX: Who are you in Christ? And how do you see God?
1. How do you explain your relationship with God?
The same way I explain my relationship with Zeus and Loki and Shiva and unicorns and Santa Clause.
2. Do you feel you aren't good enough to meet His standards?
3. Do you see Him as a loving father, or a dictator?
4. Do you believe that it's only by the Blood of Jesus that your sins are forgiven? Or do you feel you need to earn your forgiveness in any way?
5. Do you feel God's love in your life?
6. Do you feel like your sins are forgiven? Or do you feel guilty?
7. Do you feel excessively guilty in everyday life?
8. Do you feel that doing good things, you earn God's love and acceptance?
9. Do you feel that God is angry or upset with you?
Part X: Spoken curses, vows & oaths
1. Have you ever spoken something negative about yourself that has came to past? For example: "I'm sick and tired..." or "If I don't quit typing, I'm going to get arthritis!"
2. Has your parents, or those in authority over you spoken out a curse over you? For example: "You'll never amount to anything!" or "You'll never get out of debt" or "You're so dumb"
I don’t consider it a “curse”, just a shitty thing to say, but my mother once told me (when I was about 14 or so) that I’d never be able to make it in the real world like my brother. Of course, I’m now far more successful than him, so...
3. Have you ever made a vow out of anger? If so, what? For example: "I'll never let anybody push me around again!" or "I'm never going to be hurt again!"
4. Have you ever wished to die? Have you ever said it?
Other than occasionally muttering, “Somebody, please kill me now...” to my friends during particularly boring classes- no.
5. If you have made any vows or oaths, what are they?
Not that I can think of. I don’t even say the Pledge of Allegiance.
Part XI: Relationships
1. Do you have many friends? What kind of people are they?
I have about 10 close friends. They’re mostly smart, funny, quirky, reliable people.
2. Do you have a hard time trying to meet new people or make friends?
I tend to be shy, so at times yes. When meeting new people I’m usually fairly quiet and reserved. Once I know everybody, though... you could say I get a little more vocal.
3. Are you socially outgoing or shy? If so, why?
Shy. Why? Because that’s my personality. Quite like my sexuality, I was born with it.
4. How would you define your relationship with your spouse?
Part XII: Sexuality
1. Have you ever had unholy sex? What kind? (Fornication, adultery, sodomy, bestiality, with a child, etc.)
2. Have you struggled with lust, fantasy or unholy sexual thoughts? If so, what kind?
3. Have you been attracted to pornography?
I’m a yaoi fan girl. If you don't know what yaoi is- that's a "yes".
4. Do you have homosexual thoughts and desires? If so, have you acted upon those feelings?
I’m pretty sure it’s safe to say “yep” to both of those.
5. How do you feel about your sexuality? (Do you feel dirty about it, or do you feel it's a wonderful blessing that God's given you?)
How do you feel about your heterosexuality? My sexuality is not something I think about very much. At least, not any more than I do my hair or eye color, or my height (actually, at 5’1 I probably complain about my height far more than I think about my sexuality)
6. Do you withhold sex from your spouse or are you fidgety? Do you enjoy a healthy relationship with your spouse sexually? How does he or she react?
7. Have you ever been raped or sexually abused?
8. Have you ever woke up and felt a sexual presence with you? There are demons that imitate male and female functions, and stimulate their host (a person) sexually (beyond the normal 'wet dream').
9. Do you struggle or have you struggled with masturbation?
10. Do you struggle or have you struggled with any other sexual related thoughts, desires, or bondages?
11. Is there anything sexually that you are ashamed of?
No, I’m perfectly okay with my kinks.
Part XIII: Addictions
1. Do you have any addictions? If so, what kind? (Drugs, alcohol, smoking, eating, sex, TV, etc.) When did they start?
Possibly caffeine, though I have gone without it before. I’m attached to my computer but with online classes and such, that’s more of a necessity than anything else.
2. Did anybody else in your family (siblings, ancestors, etc.) have a struggle with any addictions? If so, what? Who?
My father is addicted to nicotine. My aunt is a druggie and an alcoholic. Other than that, not really.
3. Have you ever had, or currently have any sort of obsession over anything? If so, what?
Not that I can think of.
Part XIV: False religions
Examples of false religions: Buddhism, Hindu, Jehovah Witness, Mormonism, Christian Scientists, eastern religions, etc.
1. Have you ever been involved with any false religions? If so, why, when and how long? How do you feel about those beliefs now?
When I was in my teens and experimenting with other religions to see if any of them made more sense to me than Christianity, I briefly was into Wicca and paganism (technically, Neopaganism) All told, it was probably about a year or a year and a half of practice. I liked those religions more than Christianity due to the greater emphasis on being in harmony with yourself, others, and the natural world. However, objectively, I realized they were no more likely to be correct about their deities than Christianity, so I gave them up.
Nowadays, I do like to incorporate into my life the similar philosophies about peace and balance from Buddhism that I found in Wicca. However, I’m not actually a Buddhist, though I wouldn’t mind someday becoming one.
2. Have you ever been involved in any secret societies such as Freemasonry? If so, how deep were you involved?
Part XV: The occult & Satanism
1. Have you ever shown interest in the occult? If so, in what ways? (Read up on it, dabbled in it, etc.)
Yes, if Wicca and Neopaganism counts as the “occult”.
2. Do you still feel drawn or attracted to the occult?
3. Have you had any interest in horror or thriller style movies or novels? Are you still attracted to these things?
I like a lot of different kinds of movies and books- including horror and thriller. I like pretty much anything but romance (yes, I’ve ever read religious books)
4. Have you ever made a vow with the devil? If so, what?
5. Married Satan?
I didn’t know he was available...
6. Worshipped a demon or Satan?
Don’t believe in them any more than I do the great Sky Daddy.
7. Have you ever put a curse or spell on somebody?
8. Are you aware of any curses or spells placed on you? If so, what? Who did it?
9. Dabbled with an Ouija board? If so, why?
I own one but I’ve never used it.
10. Ever been a member of a coven (group of 13 witches)? Explain.
11. Communicated with the dead? Explain.
12. Told somebody's fortune or went to see a fortune teller? Explain.
13. Ever read your horoscope?
14. Watched or been involved in a séance? Explain.
15. Been involved or a victim of Satanic Ritual Abuse (SRA)? Explain.
16. Been baptized into a false religion or any other evil baptism? If so, what were you baptized into? When?
Other than Christianity? ;D No.
17. Have you ever had a spirit guide?
18. Have you ever been involved with meditation, yoga, karate, or related activities?
I’d love to do meditation and yoga but don’t have the patience. I also think it’d be awesome to learn martial arts but due to my kidney donation (which causes your remaining kidney to enlarge to pick up the slack) I can’t do any contact sports. I hope to one day find some way around that limitation and at least learn self-defense martial arts.
19. Were you or anybody in your family superstitious? If so, who?
20. Ever been involved in astral travel? (Out of body)
21. If you have made any vows or oaths, what are they? Were there any sacrifices or rituals that was accompanied with them?
22. Have you ever made a blood pact before? If so, with whom (including persons, demons and Satan) and for what purpose?
23. Have you ever partaken in automatic writing, automatic drawing or automatic painting?
24. Have you ever been involved in Yoga, transcendental meditation, or similar activities?
Again, no, though I wish I could.
25. Have you ever sought healing from a spiritual source other than Jesus Christ? (New age healing, energy healing, etc.)
26. Any other involvement in the occult? Explain.
Part XVI: Un-confessed sins
1. Are there any un-confessed sins that you have not repented of? (Usually something you've done, that you know is wrong, but won't admit to it. An abortion, stealing, etc. are some examples.)
2. Is there anything you've been hiding inside that you haven't confessed?
No. I don’t like to keep secrets. Of any kind. I blab everything (well, not secrets other people ask me to keep. I only tell things that are mine to tell)
3. Do you feel excessively guilty over some thing(s) you've done in the past? If so, what?
Part XVII: Cursed objects
1. Do you have any idols, occult rings, or anything that could hold evil spiritual value in your home? If so, what? Any objects that hold evil spiritual value must be destroyed.
2. Do you have any gifts saved from sinful relationships? If so, explain. For example, if a man gives a woman a personal gift during an adultery, that needs to be sold or destroyed.
Part XVIII: Severe trauma, abuse & disassociation
1. Have you ever been exposed to extreme abuse or a traumatic experience? Did it have a drastic effect on your emotional or mental system? If so, what happen? How did it affect you?
2. Have you ever disassociated or been diagnosed with Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID) or Multiple Personality Disorder (MPD)?
3. Are you aware of any alters (other personalities) that you may have? (If so, tell me about them)
4. Do you have a memory gap where you cannot remember a certain time of your life?
5. Do you have false memories of things that really didn't take place?
6. Have you ever been in a car accident or other traumatic situation? Have you ever witnessed a tragedy in real life?
Part XIX: Weaknesses
1. Do you struggle with any habitual sins? If so, what? Do you want to break those bad habits?
2. Do you struggle with any weaknesses such as lust, anger, hate, etc.? If so, what? Do you know where they came from or how they got started? Do you want to break free from those weaknesses?
Like I said, I get annoyed pretty easily, which I’m working on (that’s why I wish I had the patience to meditate. I’m sure using meditation as a focus and calming technique would be very helpful) I’m assuming my annoyance stems from my lack of patience when dealing with idiocy and/or bad manners and/or bad behavior.
Part XX: Pregnancy issues
1. Have you ever said something along the lines of, "I will never have children"?
No, but I have said, “I never want to have children.” Then my biological clock started ticking...
2. Have you ever had an abortion or attempted one?
3. Have you ever had incest or ungodly sexual relations with somebody related to you? (See Leviticus 20:19-21, as this can cause a curse to land upon you which needs to be broken)
Ew, no. Although I did recently, after hearing that my grandmother was breaking up with her long-time girlfriend and giving her one of their houses (which my grandmother paid for), tell my mother, “I don’t care if she’s my grandmother, I’d f*ck her to get a house out of the deal!” Granted, I already own my own house... but my grandmother’s got beachfront property.
Part XXI: Other things to look for
1. Have you ever tried drugs? If so, how much, and how did it affect you? Why did you try drugs?
No. Though I did try smoking when I was 9. I got through, like, 3 cigarettes before deciding it was dumb.
2. Have you ever thought about or attempted suicide?
3. Do you have any physical or mental disabilities, diseases or illnesses? Explain.
No. Unless you include exercise-induced asthma.
4. Do you want, and are willing to be delivered? Are you willing to give up those demon spirits and maybe make some lifestyle changes in order to keep your deliverance?
No. I don’t believe in demons.
5. Do you experience unusual confusion settle upon you as you try to pray and read the Bible?
No. Apparently I can understand it better than some fundies.
6. What kind of music do you like? (Please list all styles of music you currently enjoy, and give examples in each category you list, such as some names of artists and songs)
Jeez, this could get embarrassing. I like something from almost every type of genre (barring really, really hardcore/acid rock/metal) Some artists/types of music I like are- Britney Spears (early stuff) Enya The Fray System of a Down Gregorian Chants Bach & Beethoven (and other classical music) Savage Garden Journey Collective Soul Eminem Red Hot Chili Peppers Bagpipe music (I never said I was sane) Taylor Swift And tons more
7. Have you previously enjoyed hard rock, metal, acid, alternative, rap, new age, or any other kind of worldly music? (Please provide some examples of artists and songs from each genre (type/style) of music you list)
Yes. See above.
8. Have you had any nightmares or weird experiences at night while supposedly sleeping?
Everyone’s had nightmares. Mine usually involve falling, probably since I’m afraid of heights. But I also dream about flying, which makes the falling worth it.
9. Have you ever been in a trance or had an out of body experience?
No. Although I did almost pass out once and I imagine an out-of-body experience would feel something like I did at that time.
10. Have you ever noticed time slipped right out from under you? For example, you look at your watch and it's 7:00pm, then you look again what seemed like 15 minutes later and it's 2:00am. This is a sign of a trance.
Then I’ve obviously gone into many traces while playing the Pokemon videogame. I swear, it seems like I’ve just turned on the game and then, when I look up at the clock, I find out that two hours have gone by.
11. Have you ever touched or kissed a dead body? If so, explain whom and why and what happened afterwards.
Earlier this year I touched my greatgrandmother’s body at her funeral. I was curious what a dead body feels like as that’s the first funeral I’ve ever attended. Nothing happened afterward.
12. Do you feel that you somehow have to earn your forgiveness? Do you 'wonder' if your sins are truly forgiven -- all of them? Are you aware of any signs of legalism or religious spirits operating in your mind?
13. Do you have any physical infirmities, sickness or diseases? If so, please list them.
14. Are you on any medications? If so, please explain.
I seem to be having chronic heartburn lately so I take acid reducers but that’s about it.
15. Have you ever had any other kind of weird encounter with the spiritual realm?
Post by lonelocust on Sept 15, 2009 1:14:14 GMT -5
I take it this thread was not actually locked, or was un-locked, which I approve of. I don't see why preaching and worship rubbish should be banned in the Rubbish>Preaching and Worship board.
I am amused by this whole thing because severe mental illnesses run in my family, and my mother thinks I have demons. And these things are related - that is, directly related; my schizophrenic mother thinks that demons are controlling me, because she's schizophrenic. OH NOES HEAD EXPLOSION!
Additionally the irony of asking other people about mental illness amuses me. And trying to sound knowledgeable and with supernatural insight while making so many incorrect guesses and asking about other people having claimed supernatural powers...
At least Nautical seems to be pretty nice. I'll give him a point for that above the crazies who are additionally assholes. The paradigm that replaces all personal choice and responsibility with demons deeply offends me, but calling everything they disapprove of "bondage" from demonic influence is a social step up from the RR crowd for example. Forge on, valsa!
Indeed, it was unlocked (goes to show not all clowns are evil spider creatures who want to drag you into the sewers and eat you... or so they want you to think) The problem was with my quoting the entire previous conversation instead of linking to it, so I was just given a heads up that that's a "no no".
I understand that severe mental illness can be unsettling to a person who's never dealt with it before (and even to some who've been around it a lot) so I could see someone who believes in supernatural creatures blaming demons for it (at least until they became more educated on the real causes behind mental illness)
What confuses me is that people also see demons in the most mundane, normal emotions and actions. I mean, there's a demon for anger and for laziness and, I'm sure, for sadness. That's the kind of thing I just don't understand- these are emotions everyone experiences at one time or another.
Yes, Nautical has been fairly decent with this whole thing. A part of me naturally rubs the wrong way at hearing my sexuality is apparently evil and going to get me booted into hell but, all-in-all, he's definitely not the worst I've come across (that would be the lovely protestors at the 2002 annual Gay Price Parade... wonderful people all )
Post by Vypernight on Sept 15, 2009 4:01:20 GMT -5
Have you ever had that not-so fresh feeling in the morning? If so, you have a demon inside, and you must accept Jesus Christ now before it is too late.
If the answer is no, has there ever been a time where you don't remember if you had that not-so fresh feeling in the morning or not? The demons must be messing with your memory and you must repent before it is too late!
"TV Tropes must be one of the few places you can type "kitten" in the search engine and wind up reading about the mafia" TVTropes.org
Post by lonelocust on Sept 15, 2009 4:28:54 GMT -5
Well, my mother pretty much has exactly Nautical's paradigm. I think she first told me I was controlled by demons when she found out I had THE GAY! She does the demons for every possible negative thing though. Angry? Demon. Sad? Demon? Etc. etc. She's somewhat inconsistent about it, which isn't exactly surprising. It makes it a little more tolerable, since sometimes she's all about antidepressants for depression, then the next minute people don't love their spouses anymore because of DEMONS.
The gossip from my sister a year ago was that my mom shows a picture of me WHERE I HAVE RED EYE to friends of hers to prove to them that I have demons in me. Because that's totally not a well-understood case of optics, NO!
Post by nautical999 on Sept 15, 2009 9:42:19 GMT -5
lonlocust If i could tell you what your mother sees and hears would you believe it isn't a mental illness but a demonic presence? The voices that talk bad about her and try to get here to kill herself the ones who make her depressed those are demons. The voices of the ones being hurt are parts of her ( dissociative identities) These parts see a world that is spiritual. They are being tormented and abused by the demons. What they are being tormented with are things that had happened to your mom as a child and as growing up. These traumatic things those parts relive over and over again.
I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.