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Post by Barnox on Sept 25, 2009 4:00:27 GMT -5
I've just started college, here in the UK. I've made a lot of new friends, and one of them is a Christian. She's the only Christian out of my new group of friends who go to my college (there's also a Jehovah's Witness who goes elsewhere).
She pretty much aced every test she did in her old school. In class one day (well, yesterday), we came round to talking about evolution (it was off topic). That was when she broke the news that she doesn't believe in it. She thinks it is too far-fetched that animals and people can come about by natural selection. I briefly asked what she thought about the cheetahs/antelope (Only fast cheetahs/antelope survive, survival of the fittest) and she believes in that, but not the gradual change over time that results in new species and that.
She believes the Creation is more likely. Did nobody tell her about mutations?
And the Jehovah's Witness also doesn't believe in evolution and she's rather intelligent too. She actually stopped from going to her crush's birthday party by her father, because it was a birthday party. There was minimal alcohol, and parental supervision. Faith is great, until it gets stupid or controlling.
Anyway, I didn't really know where to post this, first post and all. Sorry if my writing style isn't too great, or it's in the wrong place.
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null
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Post by null on Sept 25, 2009 4:43:11 GMT -5
To use an analogy: Its no good having a fast computer if the software you run on it is shit.
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Post by Bluefinger on Sept 25, 2009 4:48:52 GMT -5
To use an analogy: Its no good having a fast computer if the software you run on it is shit. I am SOOOO stealing that analogy. Imaginary exalt to thee! But yeah, if one who is supposedly intelligent refuses to believe/understand evolution because of religious indoctrination, then all I'll say is this: What a fucking waste.
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null
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Post by null on Sept 25, 2009 5:47:08 GMT -5
To use an analogy: Its no good having a fast computer if the software you run on it is shit. I am SOOOO stealing that analogy. Imaginary exalt to thee! But yeah, if one who is supposedly intelligent refuses to believe/understand evolution because of religious indoctrination, then all I'll say is this: What a fucking waste. I can't claim all the credit for the analogy, I stole it from a comment on a blog, I believe the exact words were "Religion is the Windows ME of mind operating systems.". Your right about it being a waste, but there is a chance that this person may reevaluate their views.
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Post by m52nickerson on Sept 25, 2009 6:55:42 GMT -5
I think there is a difference between a person believing/accepting evolution and knowing it. I have known people who know the theory inside and out, but still believe in creation. At least those people are not scared of knowledge.
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Post by RavynousHunter on Sept 25, 2009 11:20:38 GMT -5
I would say that people who refuse to learn make me die a little inside...but that would lead one to assume that I was alive inside...which I'm not.
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tiber
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Post by tiber on Sept 25, 2009 11:56:51 GMT -5
I have a freind who has recently gained his doctorate in genetics. He doesn't believe in Evolution.
He uses evolutionary theory in his work all the time, obviously, and knows he is doing so. He justifies papers and talks shop with regards to evolution being real (modern biology doesn't work without that assumption) and yet outside of work he doesn't believe it really happened... he just believes that it lets us work things out.
I really don't understand the mind set (biology doctorate myself) he can look at observable reality, understand it, use it, talk about it at the very cutting edge of science, is very clever, but somehow manages a disjunct between what hes sees, knows and processes as reality and what he believes reality to be.
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Post by wackadoodle on Sept 25, 2009 12:22:21 GMT -5
Topics like this remind me of why 90% of the people claiming their faith is based on logic and evidence and not being brainwashed since the day they were born are full of shit. Their is simply no reason to deny evolution any more then gravity or quantum physics. But those don't conflict with any ancient legends so the "logical and rational" people never have the slightest skepticism towards those.
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Post by Barnox on Sept 25, 2009 16:26:19 GMT -5
Being a JW, my friend takes the Bible literally. So, between me getting to know her/her faith better, I've taken to asking her for her interpretation on some passages. Like the one where God tells Moses "Kill them Midan-ites, and take the virgins". Not yet got a response back. Any more anti-LoveGod passaged would be appreciated. I just want to hear the JW interpretation.
Also, I swear I made my Username with a capital letter. Does the forum do things?
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Post by Thejebusfire on Sept 25, 2009 16:33:18 GMT -5
So, she believes in survival of the fitest. But not in genetic changes over time?
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Post by Barnox on Sept 25, 2009 16:52:48 GMT -5
So, she believes in survival of the fitest. But not in genetic changes over time? Yup, that's about it. She can see things getting faster on their current legs, but not the legs changing to make them even faster, or able to traverse difficult terrain.
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Post by Mr. Turquoise on Sept 25, 2009 20:22:01 GMT -5
She can see things getting faster on their current legs, but not the legs changing to make them even faster, or able to traverse difficult terrain. You need to point out that she's being intellectually dishonest. She's stopping herself from following a line of reasoning to its natural conclusion based on her own biases. A person who is actually interested in knowledge would be bothered by that accusation, and would set out to prove you wrong by honestly considering the new insight you are providing. A person who is not, would not. You'll soon know which she is. There are a number of YouTube channels with some very good, if oversimplified, discussions of how natural selection can indeed lead to rather substantial changes in a relatively short period of time. It's really not that hard to demonstrate conclusively how VERY wrong she is. Tell her to watch these: Evolution for ID-iots (version 2.0)Evolution IS a Blind WatchmakerThese videos demonstrate 2 things: First, that selection pressure can lead to very substantial changes in a relatively short period. Second, that selection pressure can produce increasingly complex functionality. For an intellectually honest person, they simply must concede that evolution by natural selection is a plausible explanation for the complexity of life around us. Make sure you point out that although Occam's razor eliminates the need for supernatural beings, special creation can never be disproven. But neither can Last Thursdayism, in any of its current forms. I would also recommend to you, or anyone else who wants to counter the crazy that otherwise intelligent folk can spout, to check out AronRa's awesome series on the falsehoods of creationism. Perhaps you can be the first person to actually challenge this individual on the assumptions that she has never seriously considered. She may even thank you in the end. Mr. Turquoise
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Post by Sigmaleph on Sept 25, 2009 20:43:58 GMT -5
Anything else I might say was already covered, so... Also, I swear I made my Username with a capital letter. Does the forum do things? Your username is in lower case by default, but you can change it in your profile.
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Post by tiado on Sept 26, 2009 0:01:16 GMT -5
All I will say is that I hope one day your friends will use their intelligence to see reason, and realize that the idea that species come about as a result of millions/billions of years of small changes. They seem to have the brains to know about evolution, they just need to see past their religious dogma first.
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Post by Amaranth on Sept 26, 2009 1:29:26 GMT -5
Intelligence is a dangerous toy. That's not to say it's bad, but intelligence fueled by emotion can easily lead to justification of things both benign and terrible. If people want something bad enough, intelligence simply becomes a tool to rationalise it. Because intellect is pretty much just a tool, which means that it's only as good as the hand behind it. Like a scalpel.
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