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Post by Admiral Lithp on Jan 14, 2010 23:10:23 GMT -5
Fair enough.
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Post by Lady Renae on Jan 14, 2010 23:11:31 GMT -5
Ok, if this thread is going to become a discussion of poster behavior, please take it to F&B so that this thread can get back on... whatever track it was on that it has now been effectively removed from.
Especially considering this is a highly worthy discussion that kind of deserves its own thread.
nevermind... apparently I got ninja'd...
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Post by Admiral Lithp on Jan 14, 2010 23:24:46 GMT -5
I could start another fight so you could put on your mod hat?
I'm kidding.
Don't hurt me.
Umm...yes...Jehova's Witnesses...what about them?
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Post by Lady Renae on Jan 14, 2010 23:54:15 GMT -5
The only danger I see in the JW philosophy is the concept that you can't accept a blood transfusion.
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Post by ironbite on Jan 14, 2010 23:56:10 GMT -5
They're fairly polite and not all that obnoxious when it comes to spreading their beliefes. I just wish they'd start bothering us more now that I'm not working anymore.
Ironbite-love to have an actual debate...I SHOULD GO BOTHER THE MORMONS AGAIN1
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Post by RavynousHunter on Jan 14, 2010 23:59:08 GMT -5
You know I saw once in a little pamphlet that a hospital employee left about that discussed their policies regarding different religions. One little gem was that they think that Witnesses can only eat kosher food. That's Jews, moron.
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Post by Vene on Jan 15, 2010 5:30:39 GMT -5
The only danger I see in the JW philosophy is the concept that you can't accept a blood transfusion. That alone is pretty damn dangerous.
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Post by dantesvirgil on Jan 15, 2010 14:57:29 GMT -5
The other exceptionally dangerous part is the internal insistence on keeping information from outside authorities. Their working policy on child molestation, for example, is that there has to be a witness to the event in order for their to be charges brought against the one who commits the crime. How fucking likely is that? They shelled out lots of received donation money in a lawsuit to a few victims back a few years ago, because the Society encouraged local congregations to protect and shield people like that.
Incidentally, they don't teach that Jesus is an "angel" and just leave it at that. That implies they don't think he's the son of God, which they most certainly do.
Again, I have no problem bashing JW beliefs. The reason I'm on their short list and my moves get reported when I change addresses is because I am part of and have publicly started different groups to help ex-JWs deal with getting out and staying out of the religion. But people like Poe Boy make it easier for JWs to get a foothold, because when someone says, "I'm not interested in you, you don't believe Jesus is the son of god, you think he's an angel," it's super-easy to show that most people misunderstand JW beliefs and it builds trust between the JW and the recruit, which can lead to further visits.
I had some of my most "productive" recruitment visits with people who had been misinformed by someone else. They trusted me because I was nice and not the flesh eating ebola virus they'd been led to believe I would be, and I could back up my dogma from the Bible, and more importantly, I could show how the other person got my beliefs wrong, and that worked in my favor tremendously. I won't speak for A. Sapien, but that's one reason why Poe Boy's comments brought out my snippy side. When you don't know what you're talking about, you are making it so much easier to recruit into the religion, whether you realize it or not. Please just be more informed about it.
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Post by Lady Renae on Jan 15, 2010 15:08:18 GMT -5
The only danger I see in the JW philosophy is the concept that you can't accept a blood transfusion. That alone is pretty damn dangerous. I agree, but it isn't as quasi-apocolyptic as the book burning concept being brought up in the OP. Yes, it's bad. Yes, it puts lives in danger. It isn't something that's likely to spread, though, like the thought-changing tactics of book burning. It's also a thing that would scare a lot of people out of being part of the religion. I think of it this way: say someone gets recruited, and they find out they can't accept blood transfusions. One of two things happens here, either they think "well that'll never happen to me, so I'm fine" or they back out. For the ones who didn't back out, say something happens to them or someone they know where they have a close encounter with death because of the no transfusion thing. I guarantee you if they haven't become a total fanatic by then, they're looking for a way out. It's one thing to mess with someone's concept of their immortal soul (whether or not one exists being beside the point). It's another to mess with their ability to live. People will fight harder against a slow and painful death than against fanatical suicide or hellfire.
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Post by dantesvirgil on Jan 15, 2010 15:12:01 GMT -5
^^ Well, the one issue that I would add to that, Lady Renae, is that JWs have legal aid available to take their "right" to impose their beliefs on their kids to court. And they have a reasonably decent winning record. When courts start agreeing with them, that sets precedent for other parents with similar cases, whether they're JW or not. So, in some instances, it does affect more than just the JW.
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Post by Vene on Jan 15, 2010 15:13:57 GMT -5
I think you overestimate the rationality of the common person as well as their knowledge base. The JW church pushes the idea that not only are transfusions sinful, but that they are dangerous and bad medicine. They're a position of authority and the general population has a tendency to blindly believe their authority of choice.
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Post by Lady Renae on Jan 15, 2010 15:15:17 GMT -5
I was trying to avoid the kid issue because it triggers my Mama Bear.
That being said, I'll wait until the conversation is on a detail that doesn't involve children in jeopardy to rejoin it.
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Post by Lady Renae on Jan 15, 2010 15:18:05 GMT -5
I think you overestimate the rationality of the common person as well as their knowledge base. The JW church pushes the idea that not only are transfusions sinful, but that they are dangerous and bad medicine. They're a position of authority and the general population has a tendency to blindly believe their authority of choice. I do believe that's the first time I've ever been accused of thinking too highly of humans. O.o How is it exactly that people who didn't grow up with it wouldn't know the blood transfusion thing is garbage and a half? DV, what exactly is the anti-transfusion pitch? I only know about it because of the whole sacred blood issue. I never got details on this one from my JW friend in high school, and since she wasn't allowed to have contact with me outside of school, I don't have her around anymore. Makes me sad actually... she was kind of cool.
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Post by Vene on Jan 15, 2010 15:20:40 GMT -5
For the same reason that people fall for stuff like homeopathy and anti-vax, the average person knows shit about medicine and science.
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Post by Lady Renae on Jan 15, 2010 15:26:46 GMT -5
See, I don't understand that. I've never run into anyone who was that uneducated. How exactly is it that I've somehow managed to not even meet an individual of the average populace? I went to 13 different schools for fuck's sake...
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