|
Post by mistermuncher on Mar 27, 2009 13:14:26 GMT -5
Funny you raised the spectre of the Vectra, there, Bloke.
A few (as in two or three) America's motoring press concluded the best car of the year was a badge engineered variant of the Vectra (Saturn something or other, i think). I hate to say it, but if that's the best the Motor Industry can do, are they surprised anyone with more than stones in their head buys foreign?
|
|
|
Post by The Lazy One on Mar 27, 2009 13:51:45 GMT -5
My mom's Toyota van was assembled in Tennessee. Is Tennessee suddenly not in America anymore?
|
|
Dan
Full Member
Posts: 228
|
Post by Dan on Mar 27, 2009 14:23:33 GMT -5
Oddly enough, the best fuel mileage i've ever gotten was a shitty little beater '92 Ford Escort wagon with a manual trans. I drove 30 miles round trip every day for work, with a ten gallon tank, I'd only fill up once a week back in '01-'02. It had 300k+ miles on the original engine when it finally died. That's less than 20 mpg. Depends how many days per week you were driving to work, and I'm assuming the tank was empty when you filled it. And of course there's your puny American "gallons" barely two thirds the size of proper Imperial gallons. But still, that's pretty poor. And that's the best mpg you've ever had? I average 50.7, but my car's a diesel. With a petrol engine, you can get 30 easily.
|
|
|
Post by schizophonic on Mar 27, 2009 15:30:24 GMT -5
My mom's Toyota van was assembled in Tennessee. Is Tennessee suddenly not in America anymore? Al Gore's from TN, right? Then no.
|
|
|
Post by Old Viking on Mar 27, 2009 16:01:43 GMT -5
Our '99 Camry was rear-ended early in February. Totaled. Loved that car. Never had a moment's trouble with it in nine-plus years. Needless to say, I bought another Toyota. (Most of the people in the dealership appeared to be Amerrican.)
|
|
|
Post by ltfred on Mar 27, 2009 16:12:53 GMT -5
Cause that's worked wonders over the last couple of months. My famly has a Honda Jazz and a Hyundai of some kind- although we used to have a Commodore automatic (crappy, crappy car). The Honda is super cheap and gets amazing milage and is really nice to drive. Sure, it's got less horsepower than the actual horse, but why let that get between you and a perfectly good car? The problem is that American cars have to be sold at a greater cost for the same amount of work as a Japanese car, even one built in the US. The American car companies have to pay not only health insurance costs (which are killing them) but social security costs for old workers. Obviously, America needs to rebuild it's car industry (probably the steel industry would be good, too).
|
|
|
Post by gotpwnt on Mar 27, 2009 17:26:43 GMT -5
If American car companies want me to be more patriotic they should make attractive cars that are safe and don't break down. Until then, STFU. Pretty much this.
|
|
|
Post by dasfuchs on Mar 27, 2009 17:52:48 GMT -5
Oddly enough, the best fuel mileage i've ever gotten was a shitty little beater '92 Ford Escort wagon with a manual trans. I drove 30 miles round trip every day for work, with a ten gallon tank, I'd only fill up once a week back in '01-'02. It had 300k+ miles on the original engine when it finally died. That's less than 20 mpg. Depends how many days per week you were driving to work, and I'm assuming the tank was empty when you filled it. And of course there's your puny American "gallons" barely two thirds the size of proper Imperial gallons. But still, that's pretty poor. And that's the best mpg you've ever had? I average 50.7, but my car's a diesel. With a petrol engine, you can get 30 easily. Unfortunately, yes, American cars are designed to suck fuel and cost too much to fix My old GMC would make you cry...10mpg max...but, it did pull anything I wanted it to, made for a great work truck when I could afford to drive it
|
|
|
Post by dasfuchs on Mar 27, 2009 17:59:10 GMT -5
I used to work at Wal-Mart. I used to deal with asshats who wanted to buy American all the time, on the grounds they thought it was bad to support ferrners. How often I heard this convo or some permutation. "What's the difference between these two models (Usually Sony or Sanyo vs. Orion or Philips)?" "They're both pretty much the same (Depending on the size, there might be a ten dollar difference), same features, and the companies are all known for about the same level of quality (Though in the price range most of these guys and gals were looking at, it didn't matter. It was mostly cheap crap)." "Well, I think I'll go with the (Orion or Philips). I don't want none of that foreign crap." Anyone notice the issue here? I've come to the conclusion only rich people and stupid people buy patriotic. I'd think buying anything in a US economy would be considered patriotic since it's supporting that system.
|
|
|
Post by the sandman on Mar 27, 2009 18:08:50 GMT -5
The irony of this is that the same people that are making the assertion that it is unpatriotic and "anti-American" to buy a foreign car are the same people that claim to be diehard capitalists. Makes you wonder if they even know what "capitalism" and the accompanying "free markets" and "competition" even are.
According to the very philosophy they hold dear, the only real reason to buy an American car is if the American car is superior to the foreign one.
|
|
|
Post by the sandman on Mar 27, 2009 18:15:02 GMT -5
Unfortunately, yes, American cars are designed to suck fuel and cost too much to fix This was not always so. Ford's Model T went out of production in 1927, yet the last one to leave the road as a licensed, original (non-restored/historic) vehicle did so in 1973! That sucker lasted nearly 35 YEARS. Today cars are designed to fall apart into an undesireable state exactly when the last payment is made, encouraging most people to buy another one as soon as the old one is paid off, thus keeping them eternally in debt to the finance company (one of the largest of which is, **GASP**, General Motors).
|
|
|
Post by antichrist on Mar 27, 2009 18:43:24 GMT -5
My Nissan was built in Ontario, the Chev I looked at was built in China (Yes I was demanding a car built in NA).
although I'm still pissed that my 07 Nissan gets the same gas mileage as my 72 Datsun 510. At least the 510 was biodegradable.
|
|
|
Post by skyfire on Mar 27, 2009 19:14:33 GMT -5
My ideas for what Detroit needs to do if they want to survive and thrive in the new reality of things, in no particular order:
1. Tap into existing competencies and experience.
Let's look at Honda, shall we?
In addition to making cars, trucks, and SUVs, Honda also makes motorcycles, jet engines, lawnmowers, ATVs, generators, robots, and a few other items.
Thing is, most of their product line is related by the fact that they have combustion engines; Honda can simply take what they already know and apply it elsewhere.
Detroit can apply the same principle to their own brands.
For example, when most people think of SAAB they think of European-styled luxury cars. They don't think about the fact that SAAB produced three fighters planes for the Sweedish military: the Drakken, the Grippen, and the Viggen; the latter is famous for only needing a piece of tarmac the size of an average city street to take off or land from. SAAB thus has experience in regards to designing and manufacturing aircraft, so Ford (et al) could possibly put their heads together to see if expanding into the aircraft market is feasible, even if only unmanned drones or component parts like engines.
Likewise, Hummer got its start by producing a family of utility vehicles for the military and civil service outfits. What if GM got everyone to put their heads together and shared the collective knowledge with the Hummer staff? Could Hummer move beyond its namesake family of vehicles and go into additional lines of utility and service vehicles?
2. Benchmark off of Japan.
An article in the April issue of Fast Company magazine (which appears to have not yet been archived on their website) notes that whereas Nissan has cost-cutting down to a science, Toyota has efficiency down to an art. Detroit could take a lesson from Nissan in how to trim back unneeded expenses (such as slimming the supply chain down) and another from Toyota in how a more efficient factory can reduce costs and increase production output. This would have the effect of making the Big 3 leaner yet more efficient and producing cheaper vehicles.
And while we're at it, don't forget the Japanese concept of continuous improvement. Japan's car makers are perpetually looking at ways to either make production more efficient or produce better vehicles. Detroit can go several model years at a time before making any sort of effort to truly improve what they have going. This is a large part of the reason why Japan tends to produce better vehicles than Detroit.
3. Divide (the workload) and Conquer
One problem with Ford and GM is that they've got a whole family of manufacturers underneath them yet their design teams are often stepping on each others' toes. How many different SUVs does the market really need? How many coupes? How many compacts? Detroit's at the point that it's starting to compete with itself for $$$ owing to how many brands and models are out there.
Instead, what they could do is give the design staff for each badge a specific area to focus on when it comes to design, shuffling staffers as needed. This way, the staff can focus specifically on a handful of vehicles of a certain type, function, or class; said vehicles can be re-badged as needed.
For example, let's look at GM. The Hummer team can focus on Humvees, Hummers, and possibly other utility vehicles. GM's team can focus on trucks, vans, and SUVs. Chevy's team can have the sports coupes and the alternative fuel vehicles. Saturn can take the family market. Opel can have the compacts and subcompacts. If needs be, re-badging or even importation can take place as needed.
Catch my drift?
4. Play "surgeon."
Whenever a surgeon is confronted with diseased tissue, a tumor, or certain minor organs (such as the appendix) in bad shape, what do they do? They cut it away so that the whole body can survive.
Much like a surgeon, Detroit needs to take a good, hard look at what expenses not immediately related to car production they can cut away for the sake of the whole. Union contracts need to be re-negotiated with an eye to compromising while reducing expenses. Management salaries need to be re-calculated, including penalties for poor performance alongside bonuses for good performance (for example, for each quarter the company fails to make its target in one year, that's how much of the next year's pay and / or benefits the CEO can expect to forfeit unless they can prove external difficulties beyond their control). Solar panels and other "green" products can be introduced, helping to trim the monthly bills. And, in general, a belt tightening needs to commence.
|
|
|
Post by skyfire on Mar 27, 2009 19:16:01 GMT -5
My Nissan was built in Ontario, the Chev I looked at was built in China (Yes I was demanding a car built in NA). although I'm still pissed that my 07 Nissan gets the same gas mileage as my 72 Datsun 510. At least the 510 was biodegradable. On a good day, my beater of a 90 Buick can get 25 MPG highway; I've seen brand-new, off-the-lot cars that couldn't really compete.
|
|
|
Post by pdc1987 on Mar 27, 2009 19:20:04 GMT -5
If American car companies want me to be more patriotic they should make attractive cars that are safe and don't break down. Until then, STFU. GM would like you to see The Cadillac CTS and CTS-V, Chevy Corvette, Corvette ZO6, and Corvette ZR1, Buick Lucerne, and Chevy Malibu, among others. All these cares are at the top of their respective classes and brought GM some long-needed praise from automotive journalists.
|
|