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Post by ironbite on Mar 12, 2010 16:24:03 GMT -5
Wow....and you really thought that agreeing with the school would fly on this board? Really?
Ironbite-you and Skyfire must live in the same reality.
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Post by Nihilist on Mar 12, 2010 16:34:35 GMT -5
Also: Observer.
Some food for thought.
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Post by Thejebusfire on Mar 12, 2010 16:34:45 GMT -5
@ The Watcher (sorry i don't know how to quote pieces) Personally i agree with the school because i feel she was trying to go into a community where she knows moral convictions are against her lifestyle, and force them not only to admit her but to accept it as normal, essentially spiting in the face of the values of the community. Would it be the same if they cancelled because a white student wanted to take a black student to prom? Personally, I think it's the other way around. It's not she demanded the school to allow her and her partner to walk around the gym topless. She wasn't even demanding anything. She wanted to date another girl. One of my classmate's was a lesbian, we made no big deal of her and her girlfriend. She wanted to wear a tux, a few of my female classmates were pantsuits to prom. It wasn't a big deal. She wasn't forcing the school into anything by wanting to take her date to the prom. Is it "values" to mistreat people who are different than you? Would they have to do the same for an interracial or inter-religious couple?
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Post by HarleyThomas1002 on Mar 12, 2010 16:54:34 GMT -5
That's pretty pathetic if the highlight of your senior year is prom. Oh puhleeze. You get to dress like you have no sense, stand around a smelly gym sipping shitty "fruit punch" and watch the more popular people be fawned over. Why WOULDN'T it be the highlight of your senior year??? Don't forget the obscene amount of money people spend on their outfits.
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Post by tgrwulf on Mar 12, 2010 17:12:21 GMT -5
@ The Watcher (sorry i don't know how to quote pieces) Personally i agree with the school because i feel she was trying to go into a community where she knows moral convictions are against her lifestyle, and force them not only to admit her but to accept it as normal, essentially spiting in the face of the values of the community. She had no regard for their feelings on the issue. Its like sticking your nose some place it doesn't belong. Its sort of like a white supremacist going to a Harlem school demanding to wear a shirt with the confederate flag on it and swastikas, and then demanding he be allowed to do that every day, essentially saying "learn to live with it". People can always move, why do they have to force people to throw away their values and adopt theirs? I won't expand on why i agree with the school other than i have my own reasons as well, so as not to get flammed here. *sigh* Observer, you do realize that you just basically said that the majority should rule the minority on a board that's full of pretty much nothing but minorites in one sense or another right? And like someone else already said, if it were say, a black couple, this school would of been shot down in flames. Just exchanging one minority group for another doesn't make it any less bigoted, heartless, or wrong. And to your "people can always move" quote- They're fucking high school students! Lets see you live on your own with a minimum wage part time job. Gotcha, don't make the bigots uncomfortable by existing. Labeling some one a bigot is very relative. You can call any one a bigot for disagreeing with you. Here is the Mirriam Webster Defenition of Bigot: "a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices" If thats the case, then im a bigot against white supremacists, because im intolerantly devoted to my opinion that they are asses. So any one can be called a bigot then, for having set opinions on an issue. I really don't have any response to Observer outside of something which belongs in Flame and Burn. I will just say this hit national headlines in AUSTRALIA! And all we have is Year 6/7, Year 10 and Year 12 formals. All of which sucked, I found. Observer: Heaven forbid two teens in love should want to go to the prom together; at that age, the poor kids were probably born into that community and can't yet escape. Teacup tragedy compared to Chile? Probably. But at that age, it's important shit, hmm? So because i agree with the school and not all of you this belongs in flame and burn? Ok Ill shut up. Suffice to say i agree with the school. Thats my 2 cents "If thats the case, then im a bigot against white supremacists, because im intolerantly devoted to my opinion that they are asses. So any one can be called a bigot then, for having set opinions on an issue." What.... You completely misunderstood that definition dude. To be a bigot that that fear or prejudice is usually unfounded. You have a right to not like white supremacists because they are scum. But not liking people who hate other for no reason does not fit even that definition of a bigot.
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Post by observer on Mar 12, 2010 17:14:17 GMT -5
My problem is that by appearing there she is asking people to tacitly condone homosexuality, which they when I'm certain a good portion of them do not. They are just supposed to toss out their moral convictions right? In other words recognize homosexuality as normal. Let me guess , if they dont like it they dont have to go right? Well same for shutting it down; school didnt like it so no one gets to go. You may not like it, but legally (with current laws) the school did nothing wrong. Also I'm not whining about people disagreeing, I'm well aware of the political slant of this board, i fully expected disagree ment. I'm new here and I'm not sure how well disagreements with the crowd are taken. Its just an opinion OK? I'm NOT trying to convince anyone to agree with me. I don't want to be labeled a troll just because i disagree. My arguments and feelings beyond what i have already said i am certain would be disagreed with and result in name calling as has already been hurled at me, so whats the point in me explaining why i agree any further? And NO i didn't think agreeing with the school would fly on here, silly me though i thought i would be able to post my opinion.
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Post by Vene on Mar 12, 2010 17:19:50 GMT -5
Oh, sure, you can say your opinion. Just like we can state ours. You're a fuckwit. There is nothing at all wrong with homosexuality, she did nothing wrong. It harms nobody, least of all heterosexuals, and it's a lifestyle anymore than curly hair is a life style (both are genetic after all).
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Post by MaybeNever on Mar 12, 2010 17:23:04 GMT -5
Observer, disagreements are taken pretty decently... but LGBT rights are a huge deal here. Expect us locals to not only disagree with people who oppose equal treatment for any reason, but to get very vehement about it.
Ultimately, I cannot think of any rational reason to disagree with a group purely on the basis of some immutable trait. Allowing a gay person to be somewhere does not require anyone to condone anything, it only requires that they not be such fucking douchebags that they can tolerate people being different. Letting black people go to the prom doesn't require anyone to condone emancipation, just not bother about stuff that's not their business in the first place.
I think you are right insofar as the school was within its legal rights, but that by itself doesn't mean much. It's probably legal to shout obscenities in a park, but that doesn't make it acceptable.
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Post by observer on Mar 12, 2010 17:26:03 GMT -5
Oh, sure, you can say your opinion. Just like we can state ours. You're a fuckwit. There is nothing at all wrong with homosexuality, she did nothing wrong. It harms nobody, least of all heterosexuals, and it's a lifestyle anymore than curly hair is a life style (both are genetic after all). Thankfully, I'm still entitled to disagree minus maybe the last part. thanks for calling me a fuckwit BTW, you really got me to re-evaluate my position with that. Observer, disagreements are taken pretty decently... but LGBT rights are a huge deal here. Expect us locals to not only disagree with people who oppose equal treatment for any reason, but to get very vehement about it. Ultimately, I cannot think of any rational reason to disagree with a group purely on the basis of some immutable trait. Allowing a gay person to be somewhere does not require anyone to condone anything, it only requires that they not be such fucking douchebags that they can tolerate people being different. Letting black people go to the prom doesn't require anyone to condone emancipation, just not bother about stuff that's not their business in the first place. I think you are right insofar as the school was within its legal rights, but that by itself doesn't mean much. It's probably legal to shout obscenities in a park, but that doesn't make it acceptable. Good to know then. Ill be more carefull on what i choose to comment and what to keep to myself. I still think it at least implicitly implies condoning it though. Thats all. Since i hit a raw nerve ill shut up now. I'll discuss it more on a PM but its probably a good idea for me to just back out now.
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Post by MaybeNever on Mar 12, 2010 17:28:24 GMT -5
The old fuckwit gambit: works every time.
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Post by renaissanceblonde on Mar 12, 2010 17:34:13 GMT -5
RAEG!
I'm bisexual, Observer, and one of the reasons it took me so long to accept (and even admit) that side of me was because of binary gender/sexuality attitudes. I hope one day people will think 'Oh, they're homosexual' the same way we think 'Oh, she's a brunette' - as if it is (and it is) perfectly ordinary!
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Post by tgrwulf on Mar 12, 2010 17:36:20 GMT -5
My problem is that by appearing there she is asking people to tacitly condone homosexuality, which they when I'm certain a good portion of them do not. They are just supposed to toss out their moral convictions right? In other words recognize homosexuality as normal. Nobody ever said the other students had to like it. I have no idea where the hell you got that from. Understanding that someone else has rights just like you do is nowhere near the same thing as "tossing out" your moral convictions. Hell even my very homophobic father and brother agree with me that the school board members are assholes for that same reason. That should tell you something.
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Post by observer on Mar 12, 2010 17:47:07 GMT -5
My problem is that by appearing there she is asking people to tacitly condone homosexuality, which they when I'm certain a good portion of them do not. They are just supposed to toss out their moral convictions right? In other words recognize homosexuality as normal. Nobody ever said the other students had to like it. I have no idea where the hell you got that from. Understanding that someone else has rights just like you do is nowhere near the same thing as "tossing out" your moral convictions. Hell even my very homophobic father and brother agree with me that the school board members are assholes for that same reason. That should tell you something. Last thing on this: The school did NOT infringe any rights by cancelling the dance though, is what im saying. HAD they allowed it to go on and then denied her entrance, then i could see the argument. A prom is an at will privilage bestowed by the school body at will. If it were something like admission or enrolment then yeah i would NOT agree with the school; but its not; its just a prom.
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Post by The Watcher on Mar 12, 2010 17:58:40 GMT -5
Last thing on this: The school did NOT infringe any rights by cancelling the dance though, is what im saying. HAD they allowed it to go on and then denied her entrance, then i could see the argument. A prom is an at will privilage bestowed by the school body at will. If it were something like admission or enrolment then yeah i would NOT agree with the school; but its not; its just a prom. That's nice. They were legally within their rights. Their right to be abusive, homophobic bigots. Nothing illegal about that. Just like there's nothing illegal about us vehemently disagreeing with you. Even profanely.
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Post by John E on Mar 12, 2010 18:50:33 GMT -5
Observer, the question has been asked, but I don't think you answered it: If the school decided to shut down the dance because the community had a moral problem with a white student taking a black date, would you agree with that decision? How about if a community of atheists decided to shut down their prom rather than let a christian attend?
If not, what's the difference?
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