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Post by The_L on Jul 28, 2010 15:24:12 GMT -5
People see what they expect to see. This confirmation bias is easily verifiable, and has been present throughout human history. This is why some religious people have visions and non-religious people never do. It's why some people carry around good-luck charms and the like.
My hypothesis: Fundies, at heart, wish to make the world a better place, at least according to their own perspective of what constitutes "a better place." They wish to do this by eradicating things they perceive as "evil." Evil, so they believe, tends to hide in all sorts of unlikely places. Therefore, they have so dedicated themselves to the eradication of evil, that they are no longer capable of seeing any of the good things around them. They have sought evil, and so they have found it, and now it is all that they can see.
Does this sound about right, or am I way off the mark here?
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Post by peanutfan on Jul 28, 2010 16:23:28 GMT -5
It sounds pretty spot-on to me.
I'd question your premise that non-religious people never have "visions", though. It all depends on what you define a vision as. I know I've had hallucinations brought on by sleep deprivation, and I've seen and experienced things that, anecdotally, convinced me the world was a much stranger place than current science can explain. The thing is, I only had these experiences after abandoning conventional religion. Take that as you will.
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Post by matante on Jul 28, 2010 17:17:06 GMT -5
I'd define a vision, by opposition to an hallucination, by the belief that the vision has brought a message or otherwise coherent information, and that the belief persists after the cause of the hallucination has ceased. (you believe a dream while you're asleep, but not after waking up; you believe an hallucination if you're psychotic, but not after getting better, etc.)
Sounds like a workable definition, for the context?
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Post by Thejebusfire on Jul 28, 2010 17:43:42 GMT -5
I also think that some may have been born and raised that way.
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Post by DeadpanDoubter on Jul 28, 2010 18:26:39 GMT -5
Therefore, they have so dedicated themselves to the eradication of evil, that they are no longer capable of seeing any of the good things around them. They have sought evil, and so they have found it, and now it is all that they can see. This sounds like a decent "I cannot unsee what I have seen" horror story...like that creepypasta about the weird contact lenses! Mmyeah, anyway, I have to agree with this hypothesis. Like peanutfan was talking about, I've had 'visions' while irreligious, but I know they're just hallucinations and not messages from a higher power (unless any higher power that exists just likes fucking with me while I'm shnockered with cold medicine/sleep deprivation) so they can't really be considered visions. It's kinda like dreams; most people have really realistic, awe-inspiring dreams but think nothing else of them, whereas fundies seem more likely to translate the same dreams into messages from God. |
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Post by faythofdragons on Jul 28, 2010 18:57:35 GMT -5
I've had hallucinations out of nowhere before, both while I was religious and after I discarded my faith in any one religion. And some of them were pretty damned realistic. This is probably the reason why I lean towards the idea of higher powers/ghosts/otherworldly beings/etc. despite not believing in any of the formal organized religions.
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Jul 28, 2010 20:53:36 GMT -5
All I can say is is that spells and charms have done more for me than prayer ever has.
Confirmation bias? Most likely.
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Post by rookie on Jul 29, 2010 9:18:13 GMT -5
I've had hallucinations before (I dropped a couple people's fair share of acid in high school) and I've had visions I guess (those moments where things become clear and you all of a sudden gain a different perspective).
I have to agree with you, L, that they do believe they are trying to rid the world of all the evil they see. I guess there is something admirable about trying to make the world a better place. But like that old saying, if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. The problem, as I see it, is their versions of what's good and what's evil are not compatible with mine.
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Post by peanutfan on Jul 29, 2010 10:14:04 GMT -5
Your definition of "vision" seems workable, matante.
Thing is, even though I'm irreligious, I still have experienced such things, mainly through my radio seeming to respond to my circumstances or wishes. I understand that coincidence can go a long way, but it's happened to me often enough to convince me that SOMETHING was using it as a way to communicate. Evidence? No; "anecdote" doesn't equal evidence. Confirmation bias? Quite possibly; as zachski said, spells and charms work better for me than prayer ever has, and it's not inconceivable that my mind is latching onto the radio as an electronic Ouija board. But at the same time, I've successfully predicted the outcome of some fairly major life events based on dreams I've had, even when the odds were stacked wildly against the outcome I predicted. So...yeah. *C* It convinced me, at least.
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Post by Old Viking on Jul 29, 2010 13:53:21 GMT -5
@ peanutfan: Something was using the radio as a means to communicate, you say?
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Post by peanutfan on Jul 29, 2010 15:26:55 GMT -5
:-P Something other than the stations themselves, I mean.
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Post by grinningidiot on Jul 30, 2010 17:38:01 GMT -5
The hypothesis sound about right. Most people want to maximise happiness and reduce suffering for them and there's. Who counts as important is the critical thing and what kind of threat outsiders seem to pose. The fact that most fundamentalist churches offer very tight~knit groups with people similar to you but shun contact with out groups is to my mind one of the things that makes 'em so.... difficult. You end up pretty much talking to yourself and seeing any gain from "the enemy" as a loss to you.
Again it's not just the fundies who do it. Not spouting exactly what the comintern wanted would have gotten you denounced very quickly as a trotskist-fascist traitor in the 30s. It was the same thong strong in group - the other side wish your utter destruction and are of the debil!!!!
Grinning Idiot
p.s. 1st post as newbie. Couldn't find an i tro thread. Be nice....
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Post by Vene on Jul 30, 2010 20:35:37 GMT -5
p.s. 1st post as newbie. Couldn't find an i tro thread. Be nice.... Our intro thread went splody for some reason. Welcome. |
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Post by Sigmaleph on Jul 30, 2010 22:37:57 GMT -5
Evil, so they believe, tends to hide in all sorts of unlikely places Unless I'm misunderstanding you, I don't quite buy these two parts. The first one is certainly true for some of them, but there's also those that tend to think that Good and Evil are very simple propositions, and can be determined easily. They further believe that some people twist themselves to see the obviously Evil as Good and vice-versa. As for the second, fundies are plenty capable of seeing good in a number of things, first and foremost whatever principle they are fundies about. |
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Post by canadian mojo on Jul 31, 2010 9:06:04 GMT -5
My theory is that it is fear and self-loathing combined with the desire to be better than everyone else. If you are a worthless piece of shit but you are still better than the 'others,' it doesn't leave a lot of room for kindness and compassion.
Throw in a healthy sprinkle of impotent rage and pack animal mentality and you can go a long way in explaining the uglier side of humanity.
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