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Post by Dragon Zachski on Dec 20, 2010 1:30:08 GMT -5
On a serious note, I hope they finally let M Shepard have a romantic relationship with another guy in this game. It was annoying how F Shepard was the only one who could have a same-sex relationship, and even then, she'd still end up being a "father" anyways since Asari are psychic whiptail desert lizards, so on that note, F Shepard needs more options too.
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Post by lordy on Dec 20, 2010 4:50:08 GMT -5
On a serious note, I hope they finally let M Shepard have a romantic relationship with another guy in this game. It was annoying how F Shepard was the only one who could have a same-sex relationship, and even then, she'd still end up being a "father" anyways since Asari are psychic whiptail desert lizards, so on that note, F Shepard needs more options too. Agreed, I wanted to get some man loving on with Kaiden and was gutted you could only do straight romance options in ME2 as well. I heard a rumour that same sex romance options were suppossed to happen in ME1 and there are conversation options written but for whatever reason not implemented into the final game, maybe rumour , maybe not. But if We could have some man o' man loving for ME3 I think it would make an excellent game that little bit more awesome. Also I'm just looking forward to blowing the shit out of the Reapers, Harbinger is going down, ha ha!
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Post by wolfgangravenna on Dec 20, 2010 10:47:31 GMT -5
Well...
First off, Asari are technically unisexual and don't really aspire to "male" or "female". They just address each other as "she" and "her" and look like women. In a discussion in a bar on...that asari planet... it's alluded to that they all look like the women of the other species (humans for obvious reasons, the head stuff looks either Turian or Salaria, etc.) I mean, on Omega when you're doing Samara's quest, the girl her daughter murdered probably wasn't gay, but Morinth most likely didn't care.
Also, about a possible gay romance, that's fine in Dragon Age, but Dragon Age basically translates to you being put into this game, and choosing decisions and what you would say, etc. With the Mass Effect series, this isn't really YOUR character, it's Shepard. Yeah, you can try to change the history from earth born badass to "i saw my family killed in front of me, wah wah wah", but compare that to the crazy amount of control you have on the character in DA: Voice, background, class, etc. Dragon Age allows more choice because it's your character. Shepard is only your character to an extent, but he's still a character with his own personality and quirks. And one of those quirks, for better or for worse, is not bi-sexuality.
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Post by Meshakhad on Dec 20, 2010 12:02:20 GMT -5
Well, I've always played my Kaya Shepard as strictly lesbian. She's never shown an actual interest in a man.
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Post by Shano on Dec 20, 2010 13:06:14 GMT -5
Well... First off, Asari are technically unisexual and don't really aspire to "male" or "female". They just address each other as "she" and "her" and look like women. In a discussion in a bar on...that asari planet... it's alluded to that they all look like the women of the other species (humans for obvious reasons, the head stuff looks either Turian or Salaria, etc.) I mean, on Omega when you're doing Samara's quest, the girl her daughter murdered probably wasn't gay, but Morinth most likely didn't care. Also, about a possible gay romance, that's fine in Dragon Age, but Dragon Age basically translates to you being put into this game, and choosing decisions and what you would say, etc. With the Mass Effect series, this isn't really YOUR character, it's Shepard. Yeah, you can try to change the history from earth born badass to "i saw my family killed in front of me, wah wah wah", but compare that to the crazy amount of control you have on the character in DA: Voice, background, class, etc. Dragon Age allows more choice because it's your character. Shepard is only your character to an extent, but he's still a character with his own personality and quirks. And one of those quirks, for better or for worse, is not bi-sexuality. I do not quite understand your logic. If the choice of possible romance partner is a customizable property of the character and in addition includes romancing aliens, why is bisexuality not a possible choice? I fail to see how that can be considered consistent. In addition it is known that the original design included the gay option for both men and women in both ME1 and ME2. I would be a strong supporter of the notion that the morality choices you have to make throughout both ME1 and ME2 are significantly broader customization of a character the you "don't own" than sexual preference.
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Post by tgrwulf on Dec 20, 2010 21:11:05 GMT -5
Well... First off, Asari are technically unisexual and don't really aspire to "male" or "female". They just address each other as "she" and "her" and look like women. In a discussion in a bar on...that asari planet... it's alluded to that they all look like the women of the other species (humans for obvious reasons, the head stuff looks either Turian or Salaria, etc.) I mean, on Omega when you're doing Samara's quest, the girl her daughter murdered probably wasn't gay, but Morinth most likely didn't care. Also, about a possible gay romance, that's fine in Dragon Age, but Dragon Age basically translates to you being put into this game, and choosing decisions and what you would say, etc. With the Mass Effect series, this isn't really YOUR character, it's Shepard. Yeah, you can try to change the history from earth born badass to "i saw my family killed in front of me, wah wah wah", but compare that to the crazy amount of control you have on the character in DA: Voice, background, class, etc. Dragon Age allows more choice because it's your character. Shepard is only your character to an extent, but he's still a character with his own personality and quirks. And one of those quirks, for better or for worse, is not bi-sexuality. I do not quite understand your logic. If the choice of possible romance partner is a customizable property of the character and in addition includes romancing aliens, why is bisexuality not a possible choice? I fail to see how that can be considered consistent. In addition it is known that the original design included the gay option for both men and women in both ME1 and ME2. I would be a strong supporter of the notion that the morality choices you have to make throughout both ME1 and ME2 are significantly broader customization of a character the you "don't own" than sexual preference. I think they may have shied away from it in the second game because of this fiasco with Fox over the sex in the first game. Which is also probably why the love scenes were all pretty much fully clothed in ME2.
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Dec 20, 2010 22:08:20 GMT -5
Actually, what I'd really appreciate is Bioware releasing a patch that activates the same-sex scenes in ME1 and ME2 (the lines are even VOICED in ME1 for crying out loud, dunno about ME2) and fixing up a couple of issues (such as male Shepard suddenly becoming female Shepard for the sex scene, maybe also change the non-voiced text for existing voiced text)
I want me some MShep x Garrus lovings for ME2 >:[
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Post by lordy on Dec 21, 2010 5:39:05 GMT -5
Well... First off, Asari are technically unisexual and don't really aspire to "male" or "female". They just address each other as "she" and "her" and look like women. In a discussion in a bar on...that asari planet... it's alluded to that they all look like the women of the other species (humans for obvious reasons, the head stuff looks either Turian or Salaria, etc.) I mean, on Omega when you're doing Samara's quest, the girl her daughter murdered probably wasn't gay, but Morinth most likely didn't care. Also, about a possible gay romance, that's fine in Dragon Age, but Dragon Age basically translates to you being put into this game, and choosing decisions and what you would say, etc. With the Mass Effect series, this isn't really YOUR character, it's Shepard. Yeah, you can try to change the history from earth born badass to "i saw my family killed in front of me, wah wah wah", but compare that to the crazy amount of control you have on the character in DA: Voice, background, class, etc. Dragon Age allows more choice because it's your character. Shepard is only your character to an extent, but he's still a character with his own personality and quirks. And one of those quirks, for better or for worse, is not bi-sexuality. I do not quite understand your logic. If the choice of possible romance partner is a customizable property of the character and in addition includes romancing aliens, why is bisexuality not a possible choice? I fail to see how that can be considered consistent. In addition it is known that the original design included the gay option for both men and women in both ME1 and ME2. I would be a strong supporter of the notion that the morality choices you have to make throughout both ME1 and ME2 are significantly broader customization of a character the you "don't own" than sexual preference. Yeah, I'm not really seeing the logic there either. I think the fact that the dialogue was written and is in the game but not accessable is more than a little suspect. To me it seems that Shepherd was originally planned to be able to romance both sexes but for whatever reason this content was removed and I think this is what irks alot of people. I was on the Bioware forums the other day and there is a massive thread dedicated to this very subject and the argument seems to be that not so much Shepherd isn't bi-sexual but that this content was planned and then removed. I think it is a very weak argument to say that Shepherd is a set character and that doesn't include him/her being gay/bi-sexual. Liara aside there is an option for female Shepherds to had a sexual encounter with Kelly Chambers in ME2 so following your logic Shepherd must be a little bi and therefore why not keep the other same sex romance options that were originally planned? Romance options are really only a small part of ME and not essential to the overall playability of the game but for me it does take away an element of the RPG experience. As a gay man I dont want to romance women in real life or my games and so often in my ME playthroughs dont pursue any romance which although doesn't ruin the game does make me feel like I dont get to play the Shepherd I want to play. I hope this is rectified in ME3 although I'm not holding my breathe I'll be able to get some man o man loving. But hey as long as I get to kick the crap out of the Reapers I'll live with it.
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Post by wolfgangravenna on Dec 21, 2010 16:01:36 GMT -5
Right, let me explain this another way.
You aren't really playing someone who is totally customizable in Mass Effect, you are playing a character: Shepard. Yes, you can choose his background, yes, you can choose his dialogue, but the choices are limited on what Shepard can be and what Shepard can say. He is either a renegade or a paragon, and despite the amount of choice, you are still doing that in the confines of a pre-determined character. It's like when the directors of the 007 movies wanted James Bond to have a gay relationship, and there was an outcry saying that went against the character. Given, Shepard doesn't have the same history to back up that claim AS WELL AS Bond does, but if you take away that one bit with Chambers (which to me was WAY out in left field to me, as i consider the Shepard Character to be straight), what is Female Shepard left to hook up with? Garrus, Thane, Jacob, Kaiden and Liara. And may i reiterate that Asari appear to be all female, but they are uni-gendered.
It's not like in Dragon Age, where instead of a rating system of whether you are badass or a good guy, your actions are weighed on the approval of those around you. Morrigan thinks actions that favour the strong are justified, while Alister doesn't. And instead of 3 options, like in Mass Effect (Good, Bad and Neutral) you have six or seven choices to choose from, each of them varying in degree and reaction, and, in my opinion, are usually closer to what you actually feel about the situation, and the consequences aren't judged be a moral system, rather on the person you're talking to. That's a major issue for me in DA2: You are going to be playing a character, Hawke, who is most likely going to be either straight, gay or Bi, and FAR less customizable, which to me will take away from the game, but they can always plant a killer story on it and make up for it in the long run.
At least, that's my justification. In all truth, it's inconsistent to throw in the Chamber's thing, which to me was a bit "Woah, so she's Bi now?" And of course, the Liara argument is also weak because uni-sex or no, she still looks and talks like a chick. So honestly, either they're too scared to make the male Shepard gay, or they actually wanted to the character to be straight despite the sex you give it and slipped with Chambers.
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Dec 21, 2010 18:37:56 GMT -5
Except Shepard isn't a set character.
The whole Paragon/Renegade system throws that argument out of the window.
The whole "you can customize how he/she" looks buries it in the ground.
The whole "99% of Shepard's lines are picked directly by the player" sets up a gravestone.
And the whole "You can choose his/her background" etches the gravestone.
The only difference between Shepard and the main character of Dragon Age is that Shepard is FULLY voiced, whereas your Dragon Age character only speaks while doing attacks because Bioware didn't want to pay 15 different voice actors to read a whole plot's worth of lines.
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Post by wolfgangravenna on Dec 22, 2010 0:16:25 GMT -5
Except Shepard isn't a set character. The whole Paragon/Renegade system throws that argument out of the window. The whole "you can customize how he/she" looks buries it in the ground. The whole "99% of Shepard's lines are picked directly by the player" sets up a gravestone. And the whole "You can choose his/her background" etches the gravestone. The only difference between Shepard and the main character of Dragon Age is that Shepard is FULLY voiced, whereas your Dragon Age character only speaks while doing attacks because Bioware didn't want to pay 15 different voice actors to read a whole plot's worth of lines. Also, you have six different ways of saying things is Dragon Age. Whoop de ding: you can choose the way Shepard says something, but you are still only saying something that HE/SHE as a character would say, not what YOU would say.
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Post by Shano on Dec 22, 2010 0:29:15 GMT -5
Except Shepard isn't a set character. The whole Paragon/Renegade system throws that argument out of the window. The whole "you can customize how he/she" looks buries it in the ground. The whole "99% of Shepard's lines are picked directly by the player" sets up a gravestone. And the whole "You can choose his/her background" etches the gravestone. The only difference between Shepard and the main character of Dragon Age is that Shepard is FULLY voiced, whereas your Dragon Age character only speaks while doing attacks because Bioware didn't want to pay 15 different voice actors to read a whole plot's worth of lines. Also, you have six different ways of saying things is Dragon Age. Whoop de ding: you can choose the way Shepard says something, but you are still only saying something that HE/SHE as a character would say, not what YOU would say. Well that is completely unfair argument. The option is there and with morality skill you can have even 5 or 6 options at a time. However it is clear to me that not being able to say exactly what I personally would like to say is equivalent to the game being animated instead of shot with real life cameras. It is a question of resource limitation both on creator and user end (I would love for the game to have had real people react to what I want to say by the way).
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Post by wolfgangravenna on Dec 22, 2010 0:49:54 GMT -5
Aye, but i'm arguing that limitation isn't exactly because of resources, i'm saying that limitation is based on that you're PLAYING a character rather than BEING a character...
...i'm also realizing this is a very hard point to argue, because the game doesn't back me up 100%...I sometimes pick the hard ones...
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Post by Shano on Dec 22, 2010 1:36:33 GMT -5
Aye, but i'm arguing that limitation isn't exactly because of resources, i'm saying that limitation is based on that you're PLAYING a character rather than BEING a character... ...i'm also realizing this is a very hard point to argue, because the game doesn't back me up 100%...I sometimes pick the hard ones... I fail to see any benefit from furthering the debate and I am fairly content with it's current state.
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Post by lordy on Dec 22, 2010 4:28:45 GMT -5
Aye, but i'm arguing that limitation isn't exactly because of resources, i'm saying that limitation is based on that you're PLAYING a character rather than BEING a character... ...i'm also realizing this is a very hard point to argue, because the game doesn't back me up 100%...I sometimes pick the hard ones... I agree, the thread on the Bioware forums is 140 pages and been going 6 months and there doesn't seem to be any kind of consensus there either! I think it's just one of those issues that they are never going to be able to please everyone on and it will either be implemented in ME3 or it wont. I'll still be buying the game and cant wait to get my hands on it and I'm eager to see what there going to come up with ME3 story wise. The trailer was amazing and quite the tease.
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