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Post by DeadpanDoubter on Mar 23, 2011 11:18:34 GMT -5
Ayuh, quick question for those of you who, like me, were raised as Christians (evidently not Eastern Orthodox though  ): when you were young, did you ever wonder why God couldn't just, like, pick up the nasty souls after they died, scrub their sinful nature away, and let them on into Heaven? This is random and stupid sounding, I know, but ever since I was about 8 and was told that 'bad' people couldn't be allowed into Heaven because they would ruin it, I'd wondered about why they couldn't simply go through a transformation. >.> Good thing I was a quiet little heretic. |
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Post by Cygnus on Mar 23, 2011 11:50:43 GMT -5
I don't think it has anything to do with sinful people ruining heaven. I think it's more about the idea that evil people will be punished. Many people like to think that everyone will have to face divine judgement after they die. Because of this, I don't think a doctrine involving people being cleansed of their sin would be as appealing as one where people face some kind of punishment
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Mar 23, 2011 12:28:52 GMT -5
I think I once prayed for souls to be taken out of hell and put into heaven.
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Post by MaybeNever on Mar 23, 2011 14:26:42 GMT -5
I think I once prayed for souls to be taken out of hell and put into heaven. PRAYER DENIED AND YOU WILL BURN FOR ASKING. -Mgmt |
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Post by Doctor Fishcake on Mar 23, 2011 14:48:54 GMT -5
I never specifically went through this, but I faintly remember times when still being a practicing Catholic these little inconsistencies did start to bother me a bit.
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Post by Thejebusfire on Mar 23, 2011 15:15:32 GMT -5
No, but I have wondered why an all loving all powerful god would let such nastiness exist in the first place.
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Post by Meshakhad on Mar 23, 2011 15:45:57 GMT -5
What you wondered isn't far off from Jewish theology. Everyone goes to Gehenna, where they suffer for their sins for a period of their time, and then go to heaven.
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Mar 23, 2011 16:59:56 GMT -5
What you wondered isn't far off from Jewish theology. Everyone goes to Gehenna, where they suffer for their sins for a period of their time, and then go to heaven. And while harsh, this actually makes more sense than the semi-modern creation that is the Christian hell. |
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Post by Mlle Antéchrist on Mar 23, 2011 19:15:33 GMT -5
I used to wonder about this kind of stuff all the time when I was growing up.
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Post by Meshakhad on Mar 23, 2011 19:16:35 GMT -5
What you wondered isn't far off from Jewish theology. Everyone goes to Gehenna, where they suffer for their sins for a period of their time, and then go to heaven. And while harsh, this actually makes more sense than the semi-modern creation that is the Christian hell. Doesn't seem harsh to me, especially because He takes into account how much you suffered on Earth. Atone now, don't suffer later. |
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Post by Cygnus on Mar 23, 2011 19:33:08 GMT -5
I never specifically went through this, but I faintly remember times when still being a practicing Catholic these little inconsistencies did start to bother me a bit. I was pretty much the same. I kept spotting more and more inconsistencies and things that just didn't make any logical sense to me. I was able to make rationalizations for those things for a while, but it eventually got to the point where I realized that none of it really made much sense. |
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Post by happycheeze on Mar 23, 2011 20:23:48 GMT -5
One of the things that bugged me a lot was that fact that there are not only other religions, but ones that predate christianity.
I remember in highschool, I'd think about different people following different religions, and always wondered if they're all supposed to be the wrong ones that satan is using to lead others away. But than I sort of figured that they were all legitimate, I guess I had a sort of pantheistic view. I thought this when I talked to and saw my Hindu friend do a very beautiful dance.
I also always liked other mythologies because they were far more interesting than what was in teh bible
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Post by MaybeNever on Mar 23, 2011 20:32:17 GMT -5
And while harsh, this actually makes more sense than the semi-modern creation that is the Christian hell. Doesn't seem harsh to me, especially because He takes into account how much you suffered on Earth. Atone now, don't suffer later. I don't really agree with making people suffer for their sins. Even in extreme cases (say, a multiple murderer or rapist) where, say, the death penalty might be on the table, I think it's a necessary death to protect others rather than a punishment for his or her crimes. (Also, any god that would punish people for loving bacon is not a god I want to worship!) |
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Post by DeadpanDoubter on Mar 24, 2011 0:10:40 GMT -5
What you wondered isn't far off from Jewish theology. Everyone goes to Gehenna, where they suffer for their sins for a period of their time, and then go to heaven. Really? I was secretly Jewish, then...DON'T TELL MY MOM. Any time I write stories that involve an afterlife anymore, they tend to involve something vaguely similar (I'll have to look up Gehenna to make sure I'm not off in LaLa Land)...except the punishments are given by those who were wronged, after their own lives have ended and, basically, the "results are in". Demons and so-called 'angels' are allowed to reincarnate and live out just lives as partial penance for the crimes they committed for the God of Dying, though that rarely works out. The Council are dickholes. I think one thing that bothered me about the idea of Hell as much as why God couldn't simply cleanse the souls was why God himself was the one who punished people. I mean, he always acted like any sins committed were against HIM PERSONALLY, and not just in a "oh you're my children" kinda way, but in a "bitch you make me mad" way. It's like...he's supposed to be just and merciful, but he's a jealous, easily offended bitch (by the interpretations I was raised with, anyway). |
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Post by Radiation on Mar 24, 2011 0:12:00 GMT -5
I never understood the Christian concept of hell either. I think it's because most Christians, especially fundies, feel some sort of vindication towards those that they feel are "evil," those that don't follow their worldview, or engage in behavior that is anathema to their beliefs will suffer in eternal punishment. These kind of people actually feel some kind of satisfaction in "knowing" that those that oppose them will be in pain for eternity.
For example,
John Christian is a Bible believing fundamentalist Baptist. He goes to church every Sunday, reads his Bible, attends Bible study and insists on putting God into every facet of his life. He is pro-life, insists on abstinence only sex education. He is strict with his children in that he metes out coporal punishment. He believes that his way is the right way and is deeply entrenched in the fellowship with his church members.
John has a neighbor, Jake, who is a moderate Christian. He goes to church when he feels like it. He likes to pop open a beer after a long day of work. He curses mildly, he believes in educating his children about God but also teaches them to learn about other belief systems. He believes that his children are individuals and should make their decisions about God. Jake is pro-choice, believes in abstinence but does think that children should be taught about the responsibility of sex. Jake does know the Bible but views it more as a metaphor than in the literal sense.
John and Jake clash over these beliefs. John then tells Jake that he should "follow the True Teachings of the Bible" and invites him to his church as he believes that Jake is going spiraling down the wrong path. Jake politely declines. John is persistent and things get heated to the point that the two have to walk away from each other.
John feels spurned by his neighbors defiance to convert and personally takes it as a slight so thus feels inwardly smug that he will go to heaven while Jake will burn forever in hell, even though he was "warned."
Example 2
Tammy is a fundamentalist Christian. She and her husband Tom go to the Pentecostal church every Sunday, they read their Bible and attend Bible study. They also participate in "outreach" programs that are pretty much inner city missionary work. They homeschool their children so that they could be raised with "Godly, Christian" worldviews leaving little room for their children to explore other options. They vehemently do not believe in evolution and are ardent believers of Kent Hovind. Tammy is an outgoing, friendly person but when subjects of faith are brought up she is an ardent and persistent believer of her faith.
Tammy works for an office and in this office, religious symbols can be worn and have displays (Biblical quotes, ornaments, crosses, whatever) in their cubicles since this particular employer does believe in free expression. One day a new hire named Jen comes in to work and is assigned a cubicle next to Tammy. Tammy, being the hospitable person that she is offers to help Jen get set up. As she starts taking stuff out of Jen's boxes she notices a pentagram around Jen's neck. Curious, she asks Jen about it in which Jen replies that she is a Wiccan. Tammy is shocked, maybe even repulsed. She has to work next to a devil worshipper! Nothing else is said and Tammy goes back to work, but inside she is frightened, scared, and nervous. She doesn't know anything about Wicca outside of being taught that it was "bad" "evil" and "satanic" She then decides to act on good faith and to bring this "lost sheep" back to the arms of Christ. So over the course of a few days, here and there, she tries to drop Jen "advice." She gives Jen religious tracts, She tries to talk to Jen about Jesus during breaks. She even invites Jen to church. Each time Jen politely and civilly refuses to discuss religion and turns down the invitations. However Tammy presses on to the point that Jen has no choice but to report her to HR. After an reprimanding from HR about harassing Jen, telling her that if she continued she may be terminated, Tammy is defeated, she feels that this is an attack on her "free speech" and "freedom of religion." (She may or may not turn to legal recourse but that's not the point here.) She begins to resent Jen and figures that Jen, being a sinner, will not change and is thus an "enemy" of God and Christ, ergo, she will burn in hell and Tammy feels some satisfaction in that.
Example 3 Global Vindication
Rick is a Southern Baptist living in Georgia. He grew up in a rural town and now lives in a small town outside of Atlanta. His parents made sure that each and every one of their kids went to church each Sunday. Every sermon that he heard as a kid was of the hellfire and brimstone kind and even now, the church that he attends has the same pattern in their sermons. In Sunday school he is taught that Jesus loves everybody but during the sermon service he is taught that sinners burn in hell. The preacher would often incorporate real world situations and then condemn those that engaged in drinking, drugs, rock and roll music, homosexuality, promiscuity, etc to hell.
Now at age 56, he reads the newspaper, watches the news and surfs the Internet. What he finds both baffles and disgusts him. Homosexuals demanding rights, how dare they! They are sinners and disgusting people! Women getting abortions! Abortion is murder! That is what Pastor Jones said! Drug use on the rise! Teens having sex! What about abstinence? Don't they teach that in school? No! The liberals and the godless want kids to have sex! They want to teach kids HOW to have sex!
Rick thinks the world is getting worse, he thinks it is because God is "absent" in the world. That the world is too secular. He remembers how his childhood pastor and even his present pastor talk about how God is being "thrown out" and that this is the reason why things are happening the way that they are. Rick believes that Satan is ruling the world. But wait, God is going to come back, and when he does, all of those that sinned, are evil, engaging in evil, sick acts such as homosexuality will be judged! Yes! and that makes him feel better, that makes him think that he would be excluded from God's righteous wrath, because he is a True Christian and God will look favorably upon him and Rick feels satisfaction that he will be among the chosen ones that God will take up into Heaven and among those that have been saved to look upon the unsaved heathens, sinners, and vile ones and laugh at their torment. All the sick, vile people that had the "run of the world" is now paying for their "evil deeds" on earth and that they will suffer for all eternity.
Ok, this is just my opinion on the what the possible reasons that the OP asked based on what I have read on the Internet and seen and experienced in real life. These are just some examples and reasons as there are probably others and probably a much more better reason on the theology, ideology and sociology of the concept of hell and what people feel about it.
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): when you were young, did you ever wonder why God couldn't just, like, pick up the nasty souls after they died, scrub their sinful nature away, and let them on into Heaven?
