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Post by lighthorseman on Sept 26, 2011 5:04:43 GMT -5
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Post by lighthorseman on Sept 27, 2011 6:56:54 GMT -5
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Post by askold on Sept 28, 2011 3:27:18 GMT -5
Vyborg: I know it's unbelievably dangerous, but I think I should do it at least once in my life. Anyone else want to come? How the hell did I miss this thread! I live in Finland and am in SCA. Vyborg (or Viipuri as we call it... Damn those russians for stealing it.) is relatively near, but I am not sure if I even want to try that since I am kinda a wuss. Here is video of me and the Finnish team in a Swedish event: (I'm the guy who gets killed immediately and looks up at 0:37, in the right corner) And a picture of me in another armour. (I am the one on right) This picture was taken in a christmas party for children held by the local church. (they had a medieval theme and asked for some knighs. And yes I know those shoes are horrible but I was afraid of slipping indoors since I also participated in a dance show in that armour.)
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Post by scotsgit on Oct 3, 2011 18:48:57 GMT -5
I've never had a satisfactory answer to this: Why won't the SCA use proper weapons?
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Post by John E on Oct 3, 2011 20:42:17 GMT -5
Short answer: Safety.
Long answer: As a non-profit organization that allows people to participate in the fighting with relatively little training, and not wanting to get sued, they have stricter safety regulations than most reenactment groups. For one thing, steel weapons are much more dangerous to thrust with. The larger cross section of rattan "blades" allows for thrusting without having to worry about blades slipping in the openings of a helmet and taking someone's eye out. All the safety rules can be a bit restrictive, and reduce the historical accuracy somewhat, but they work very well. The SCA has a better safety record than most college and even high school sports programs.
FYI, there are two categories of fighting in the SCA, one of which DOES use steel swords. It's called "light weapons" because only light contact is allowed (as opposed to "heavy weapons" in which a hit has to land hard and square to even count), and they wear much less armor. Light weapons is mostly for rapier, but some kingdoms also have "cut-and-thrust" programs for arming sword and longsword, and some are experimenting with spear.
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Post by askold on Oct 4, 2011 2:43:24 GMT -5
Steel weapons in SCA. (In the video it is called "sideswording" which was another name for the use of steel weapons in SCA, lots of jargon.)
I think the biggest reason, of why we have rattan weapons in SCA is that when SCA began it started with wooden swords and progressed to rattan.
Maybe someday we will use steel weapons as much as rattan but right now the sport has traditions and so much popularity in SCA that it seems to take the "spotlight."
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Post by lighthorseman on Oct 4, 2011 3:30:24 GMT -5
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Post by scotsgit on Oct 4, 2011 5:33:57 GMT -5
But the thing is, we use steel weapons over here and there's only been a few major incidences, we have got very tight safety rules (the Wars of the Roses Federation doesn't allow head shots, come to that, very few societies do) and you have to wear the minimum of safety, which includes, at the very least, 14mm armour, but from my own point of view can't see why you wouldn't want to use steel instead.
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Post by John E on Oct 4, 2011 15:28:50 GMT -5
SCA does allow head shots though, and even thrusting to the face if the weapons are made to thrusting standards. In that sense, SCA fighting is actually MORE realistic.
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Post by askold on Oct 5, 2011 1:27:25 GMT -5
SCA does allow head shots though, and even thrusting to the face if the weapons are made to thrusting standards. In that sense, SCA fighting is actually MORE realistic. I hate when we start arguing over realism. Yes in SCA we can hit hard and fast. I can stab you in the face, I can hit you in the face, I can even punch your shield out of the way with mine. Does anyone do that with steel weapons? Yes. Some even allow grappling and wrestling in armour which we can't do. SCA has by no means the "toughest" or most "realistic" fighting, just look at this video. (hint: 0:23) SCA armoured/heavy combat is fun and the rules are more relaxed than some steel weapons styles, but in the end my sword is a rattan club and the techniques I use are based on the fact that it is a club not a sharp metal sword. Don't get me wrong I love SCA, I love armoured combat, and I would/will still do it if/when I started using steel weapons in a different sport/fight-simulation. Still the very fundamental reason as to why we haven't traded our clubs to swords is propably this: -We began with clubs, the students who started this organisation in 1966 made their own armour and weapons (freon can helmets FTW) and althought the armour has improved the weapons remained as clubs. (That is the way it was, so that is the way it will remain, dammit!) -Kings are chosen by tourney with rattan weapons. The "knights" must prove their skill at arms with rattan weapons. (That is the way it was, so that is the way it will remain, dammit!) -That is the way it was, so that is the way it will remain, dammit!
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Post by scotsgit on Oct 5, 2011 5:20:40 GMT -5
But why not use a wooden waster then?
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Post by askold on Oct 5, 2011 8:23:02 GMT -5
But why not use a wooden waster then? Wood is a no-no because of the way it splinters. I have seen good looking rattan wasters and might use one myself at some point.
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Post by lighthorseman on Oct 5, 2011 8:40:59 GMT -5
FYI, Australian metal weapons groups tend to accept head shots.
Personally, I don't think its a good idea unless you have a full face helm, but I'd say that for wooden weapons too.
As far as safety, I'd say the same thing to you guys as I'd say to a MGP, "Yes, people get hurt, like any sport. But I've seen people get hurt worse playing football than doing this"
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Post by John E on Oct 5, 2011 9:19:38 GMT -5
SCA does allow head shots though, and even thrusting to the face if the weapons are made to thrusting standards. In that sense, SCA fighting is actually MORE realistic. I hate when we start arguing over realism. Yes in SCA we can hit hard and fast. I can stab you in the face, I can hit you in the face, I can even punch your shield out of the way with mine. Does anyone do that with steel weapons? Yes. Some even allow grappling and wrestling in armour which we can't do. SCA has by no means the "toughest" or most "realistic" fighting, just look at this video. (hint: 0:23) I didn't say it was the toughest or most realistic. I'm only arguing that it has merit, i.e. that there are advantages and disadvantages to using either steel or rattan, and not to knock rattan just because it doesn't look as real. P.S. I fight with steel. But that's my choice and it's not right for everyone or every situation.
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Post by lighthorseman on Oct 5, 2011 10:30:04 GMT -5
As I think I've said before, I have a soft spot for the SCA, even though in Australian re-enactment, the difference between metal weapons and SCA is sort of like the difference between football and soccer enthusiasts, or worse, PC and Mac enthusiasts.
I like the SCA because it is very open and inclusive, and if you're a poor student who can't afford anything better than plastic armour, you're welcome to play along. Metal weapons, on the other hand, tend to look down their nose somewhat at anyone who's gear isn't up to scratch pretty much from day one, which is a MAJOR impediment to recruitment, but try telling the average re-enactor that.
Generally speaking, metal weapons is more historically accurate than SCA across the boards, as a result. However, in Australia at least, the 3 costumiers who I would consider the most learned (PhDs on period fashion and such) are all SCA. So there are idiot savant mediaevalists who are the sort of people you would hire to equip you if actually travelling back in time in the SCA, as well as the guys in plastic armour and army boots. Conversely, the quality of armour and weapons in metal weapons is head and shoulders above anything I've seen in the SCA, and we have a few academic level metal weapons guys who's fields tend to be more martial.
I think its a shame there's such a division between the two actually, when if we were to unite our forces, we could collectively cast MAJOR scorn and derision on the crushed synth. velvet cloak wearing crystal mystic seltic (sic) people who THINK they're mediaevalists.
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