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Post by Admiral Lithp on Aug 9, 2011 1:05:21 GMT -5
Not you, the other one.
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Aug 9, 2011 1:12:02 GMT -5
Oh. Well, it certainly looked like you were talking to me
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Post by DeadpanDoubter on Aug 9, 2011 1:26:29 GMT -5
Romeo and Juliet was as much an indictment against arranged marriages as it was against the shallow, puppy love experienced by the leads. The parents were just as culpable for what followed. A huge part of the point of Romeo and Juliet is that it isn't true love. They're just a couple of stupid teenagers too young to know better. <insert drunk Twilight ramble here> This story horrifies me...I...I don't know what else to say, besides that I hope the kids survive and manage to flee to a more tolerant region...
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Post by Admiral Lithp on Aug 9, 2011 1:29:19 GMT -5
That's because you ninja'd me.
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Aug 9, 2011 1:45:01 GMT -5
That's because you ninja'd me. I can't tell the difference between a ninja or a response If it's the same minute, maybe, but a single minute is enough time to read my post, go "what." and reply.
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Post by Admiral Lithp on Aug 9, 2011 2:12:15 GMT -5
What you fail to consider is:
1. I have multiple tabs at once, am often responding to multiple threads, on multiple sites, at the same time.
2. I edit 2 or 3 times before I hit "send."
Sometimes, it takes me a little while to post.
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Post by Smurfette Principle on Aug 9, 2011 11:37:44 GMT -5
Romeo and Juliet was as much an indictment against arranged marriages as it was against the shallow, puppy love experienced by the leads. The parents were just as culpable for what followed. A huge part of the point of Romeo and Juliet is that it isn't true love. They're just a couple of stupid teenagers too young to know better. <insert drunk Twilight ramble here> This story horrifies me...I...I don't know what else to say, besides that I hope the kids survive and manage to flee to a more tolerant region... Maybe if there's enough outcry, someone can raise enough support and money to get them out of the country? Just releasing them isn't enough in this case.
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Post by Yla on Aug 9, 2011 12:43:12 GMT -5
This is just fucked up.
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Post by Admiral Lithp on Aug 9, 2011 15:29:20 GMT -5
God, I hope so.
But even then, you can't really be sure they won't be tracked down.
Because disowning them & leaving them the Hell alone apparently isn't an option. If you're going to be a dick, don't half-ass it.
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Post by TWoozl on Aug 9, 2011 17:04:27 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but I need to rant here briefly.
Zachski, I unfortunately need to disagree with you on the neutrality of treatment you're proposing for religion. Here's a better analogy for you; A knife is a tool readily usable as a weapon, though it's commonly intended as a tool first. You can slice your food with it, whittle wood with it, and otherwise make peaceable use of it, just as readily as you can kill with it. Religion is not a knife. Its core purpose is singular; Get more followers and convince them to believe in the One Truth Whatever It May Be.
This doesn't make religion a knife; The knives, the hammers, saws and tools are in the hands of the religious believers, and they may think honestly they are using them justly for whatever aim they need to accomplish, in the name of their faith. Building houses, cooking meals, supporting communities, or killing two teenagers with the misfortune of having hormones.
The religion itself, is a gun, an intellectual weapon. It's a single purpose tool with one aim and one objective; The destruction of what opposes it in human thought. It can certainly be used as a hammer, poorly, or a lever, often breaking it in the compromise, but it will always be a gun. There are very, very few religions on the planet nowadays that are not in some fashion insisting that they are the One True Way. Most, if not all of them do.
All of the prominent Abrahamic faiths have more than enough wording in their holy writ encouraging the death of unbelievers, warlike behavior and intellectual suppression. We see this nearly constantly, with individuals unwilling to reconcile their own psychosis with the need to actually heal and adapt to ordinary society; Otherwise productive and sane individuals who have been thrown under the bus by their faith, or even encouraged by their peers.
That said, I will agree with you on one point; At least when positive intent is applied to the idea, good can be done. To return to the gun analogy, most gun owners are not irresponsible idiots. The ones that are, are capable of causing death and destruction on a staggering scale, however.
I honestly expect I may be flamed for this posting, and understand that, but I've largely listened to people extoll the virtues of religion my entire life; I've also been persecuted by people "of faith" for my sexual orientation, my physical condition, my apostacy, and even trivial little matters like simply choosing not to participate in single-faith events voluntarily. I've been physically assaulted by these believers, and I carry equally physical scars from one such incident. I've seen gross hypocrisy and genuinely anti-human acts perpetrated in the name of faith. I do not believe faith is a neutral, harmless thing, after having witnessed just what fundamentalism will do to otherwise reasonable human beings.
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Post by Thejebusfire on Aug 9, 2011 17:51:55 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but people like this need to have the shit beat out of them. Children are supposed to feel loved not only from their parents, but from aunts, uncles, grandparents, etc... Last year, my teenage cousin ran off with some guy and got pregnant. Did she make a really stupid mistake? Yeah, but we didn't stone her to death for it. I know that's an entirely different situation, but it was the only thing I could think of.
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Post by DeadpanDoubter on Aug 9, 2011 18:04:02 GMT -5
<insert drunk Twilight ramble here> This story horrifies me...I...I don't know what else to say, besides that I hope the kids survive and manage to flee to a more tolerant region... Maybe if there's enough outcry, someone can raise enough support and money to get them out of the country? Just releasing them isn't enough in this case. I wonder if there are any funds being started for them? How would one go about that, or would they need to be in the country? I can only spare about $5 right now, but come Wednesday or Thursday, it'll be a bigger amount. We'd still need to find someone to physically take charge and smuggle them out from under the noses of their families...
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Post by Meshakhad on Aug 9, 2011 20:07:21 GMT -5
Any man who engages in an honor killing deserves to die at the hands of his own children.
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Post by sylvana on Aug 10, 2011 2:59:07 GMT -5
I honestly am extremely grateful that I do not live in countries like that. I cant help but be glad that I am free to love whoever I want without 300 people ganging up on us and trying to kill us. I am glad that I can marry who ever I want, and have sexual and intimate relationships with them at any time. I am very grateful for the liberties I have. One does not really see how truly blessed we are until you see someones parents calling for the stoning of their daughter just because she loved someone else, or where the family of a man who was killed in a riot demands the girl marry one of their male members. I am distinctly glad that I am no longer considered property.
Honestly, for all the wars against militant dictators the UN seems to get involved in. actually going in and trying to bring equity and human rights to places like this seems like a far more noble cause to me. I really wish there was something that could realistically be done for these children and especially women. Unfortunately nothing can be done to break these hard entrenched misogynistic power-bases.
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Aug 10, 2011 17:27:53 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but I need to rant here briefly. Zachski, I unfortunately need to disagree with you on the neutrality of treatment you're proposing for religion. What you are describing isn't religion, although it is something religion can become. What you are describing is fundamentalism, the "My way or the highway" mentality. And this exists separately from religion. Even atheism, a non-religion, or even something as simple as the fanbase of a sports team could become precisely what you described. A religion is an organized system of beliefs, nothing more, nothing less. It is very much like a knife, hammer, wrench, etc. I do appreciate your rant, but it is based off of a fundamentally flawed definition of religion.
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