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Post by Mlle Antéchrist on Oct 26, 2011 10:41:17 GMT -5
I'd always assumed that the Adam and Eve story was an allegory: When we developed the ability to reason, we were able to notice the harsher aspects of life, and it no longer seemed idyllic. I suspect that the tale was originally meant to be allegorical, although I've always interpreted it as a warning against questioning authority, thinking for oneself and seeking knowledge about the world outside of the insular community to which you were born. At least, that's my interpretation based on the context it's presented in -- as a stand-alone story, or in its incarnations before its final form, it could very well have a different meaning.
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Post by mechtaur on Oct 26, 2011 14:56:59 GMT -5
2. God killed the Canaanites after over 400 years of patience against their bestiality, child sacrifice, homosexuality, ritual orgies, and false religion that led to the above practices. Wasn't God aka Gudan aka YHWH aka El originally a Canaanite god? False religion, huh? Thanks for that clarification. Yes and no. Yahweh originates from the Medianites, while El was an Ugartic deity (Similar to Ba'al [Hadad, most likely given that at the time Hadad had become the sky god of that area]. Mind you, El just means "God" in Western Semitic as well as reference to the proto-Semitic god king. Its all pretty convoluted, really.
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Post by driewerf on Oct 28, 2011 11:31:56 GMT -5
There is only one way to deal with idiots like this: Idiot: [Stupid shit] Me: God says you're an idiot. Idiot: No. [More stupid shit] Me: Who are you to argue with God? I did exactly that today. www.christianforums.com/t7603243/I wonder if the fundies overthere will claim that the pregnancy of said woman cannot be a miracle.
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Post by DeadpanDoubter on Oct 28, 2011 15:09:03 GMT -5
I'd always assumed that the Adam and Eve story was an allegory: When we developed the ability to reason, we were able to notice the harsher aspects of life, and it no longer seemed idyllic. I suspect that the tale was originally meant to be allegorical, although I've always interpreted it as a warning against questioning authority, thinking for oneself and seeking knowledge about the world outside of the insular community to which you were born. At least, that's my interpretation based on the context it's presented in -- as a stand-alone story, or in its incarnations before its final form, it could very well have a different meaning. One of the original tales included the lovely sub-lesson of "Women, if you want to get laid, you better stay on your back. Otherwise you'll become a baby-sucking demon." Or so I hear.
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Post by Admiral Lithp on Oct 28, 2011 15:16:29 GMT -5
Lilith. But the Lilith story was believed to have been invented because of the holes in the story of Eve's creation.
Hilariously, it just made God look MORE like a thoughtless asshole.
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Post by Mlle Antéchrist on Oct 28, 2011 18:30:01 GMT -5
Wouldn't doggy style imply even more dominance on the male's part, though?
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Post by Admiral Lithp on Oct 28, 2011 19:04:38 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure sex doesn't actually feature into the story, the main conflict is simply about Lilith not listening when Adam tells her what to do, vying for equal standing, & God saying, "Fuck you, bitch." The whole "Lilith wanted to be on top" is similar to calling Jesus a "magic Jew" or saying "more blood for the blood God!" The story itself doesn't use those terms, they're just humorous paraphrasings.
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Post by Mlle Antéchrist on Oct 28, 2011 19:18:51 GMT -5
I know, I was kidding
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Post by Paradox on Oct 30, 2011 15:25:50 GMT -5
I'd always assumed that the Adam and Eve story was an allegory: When we developed the ability to reason, we were able to notice the harsher aspects of life, and it no longer seemed idyllic. I suspect that the tale was originally meant to be allegorical, although I've always interpreted it as a warning against questioning authority, thinking for oneself and seeking knowledge about the world outside of the insular community to which you were born. At least, that's my interpretation based on the context it's presented in -- as a stand-alone story, or in its incarnations before its final form, it could very well have a different meaning. I've often speculated that it might reflect some memory of the switch from a hunter-gatherer lifestyle to a much more work intensive sedentary farming lifestyle. Note how it is only after being kicked out of the garden, where Adam and Eve had all the food they wanted, that they must till the soil to provide for themselves. I have no idea if it's true but it's certainly something to think about.
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Post by mechtaur on Oct 30, 2011 19:23:53 GMT -5
Mind you, the Gnostic Sect took a way different route with the whole story. Essentially, they posited that Jesus was the snake and used the fruit to lure Adam and Eve out of the illusion of life that the Demiurge (Yaldabaoth) had trapped them in, allowing them the chance to break out and return their essence to the Pleroma (Realm of Light [Real Heaven]).
I think the Gnostics made more sense than the Catholic led mythology.
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Post by Admiral Lithp on Oct 30, 2011 19:43:30 GMT -5
I never heard that story.
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Post by SimSim on Oct 30, 2011 20:03:07 GMT -5
I suspect that the tale was originally meant to be allegorical, although I've always interpreted it as a warning against questioning authority, thinking for oneself and seeking knowledge about the world outside of the insular community to which you were born. At least, that's my interpretation based on the context it's presented in -- as a stand-alone story, or in its incarnations before its final form, it could very well have a different meaning. I've often speculated that it might reflect some memory of the switch from a hunter-gatherer lifestyle to a much more work intensive sedentary farming lifestyle. Note how it is only after being kicked out of the garden, where Adam and Eve had all the food they wanted, that they must till the soil to provide for themselves. I have no idea if it's true but it's certainly something to think about. Probably not. Hunting and Gathering wouldn't provide an endless supply of food. Hunters and Gathers live(d) (some still exist today) in nomadic and semi-nomadic bands for a reason, once they used up the resources in an area they needed to move on. The resources wouldn't always have recovered once they moved back to an area. Yes there is less work associated with a hunting-gathering lifestyle, but after an initial rough period just after the introduction of agriculture the quality of life of humans greatly increased. Plus in some aspects humans have never stopped hunting and gathering.
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Post by mechtaur on Oct 30, 2011 20:49:06 GMT -5
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Post by Paradox on Oct 30, 2011 23:31:34 GMT -5
I've often speculated that it might reflect some memory of the switch from a hunter-gatherer lifestyle to a much more work intensive sedentary farming lifestyle. Note how it is only after being kicked out of the garden, where Adam and Eve had all the food they wanted, that they must till the soil to provide for themselves. I have no idea if it's true but it's certainly something to think about. Probably not. Hunting and Gathering wouldn't provide an endless supply of food. Hunters and Gathers live(d) (some still exist today) in nomadic and semi-nomadic bands for a reason, once they used up the resources in an area they needed to move on. The resources wouldn't always have recovered once they moved back to an area. Yes there is less work associated with a hunting-gathering lifestyle, but after an initial rough period just after the introduction of agriculture the quality of life of humans greatly increased. Plus in some aspects humans have never stopped hunting and gathering. That's all true, but it's not hard to see how people living lives of backbreaking work might idealize a partly remembered past. Again, it's just speculation.
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Post by dharmicdalek on Nov 1, 2011 19:00:18 GMT -5
I used to be a gnostic but I left it because I got sick of the negative dualistic world view. It is a very interesting topic however.
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