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Post by Vene on Oct 26, 2011 19:13:47 GMT -5
Did I say the drop is a bad thing? It is a good thing, but when a policy was already planned, bumping it up a little earlier is not some big accomplishment, unless he is doing something else to ease college debt. This is a tiny little reform, that by itself, only will perpetuate a broken system. A 2% drop on $40,000 saves about $1600 in interest by starting two years early. That’s a fair bit of money. And it is pathetic in comparison to the $40,000 debt that was an inappropriate burden to begin with. ETA: Obama is the "great" compromiser, I'd be shocked if he did something beyond this to ease student debt. Graduates with a $40,000 debt are still fucked, just a little big less so. |
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Post by RavynousHunter on Oct 26, 2011 19:19:40 GMT -5
Every step forward is an important one, no matter how significant.
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Post by N. De Plume on Oct 26, 2011 19:20:36 GMT -5
ETA: Obama is the "great" compromiser, I'd be shocked if he did something beyond this to ease student debt. Graduates with a $40,000 debt are still fucked, just a little big less so. The whole point of this move is that it is what he can do without having to go crawling to Congress. Let’s not forget that one (by no means the only) reason Obama sacrifices so much in compromise is because certain Congresspeople won’t compromise at all. They’d rather wreck the country than let the other side pass anything. In this case, the president appears to be doing all he can. Every step forward is an important one, no matter how significant. That proverb about a journey of a thousand miles seems appropriate. |
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Post by Vene on Oct 26, 2011 19:45:14 GMT -5
The whole point of this move is that it is what he can do without having to go crawling to Congress. He's capitulated to the right wing even when he doesn't need to ask Congress (an unrelated example). That excuse doesn't work so well when he was pretty poor at actually doing shit when the Dems had a supermajority and when he fills his cabinet with the people who thought up the policies that lead to the great recession. To me, this action reeks of damage control and pandering, but with no real desire to ease debt. |
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Post by sylvana on Oct 27, 2011 2:05:57 GMT -5
To me, this action reeks of damage control and pandering, but with no real desire to ease debt. It probably is, but then I have to ask, what do you want him to do? I guarantee he cannot do anything that will magically make that debt just vanish. Making it just disappear would damage the already pathetic economy. There is no way he will be able to get any kind of legislation through that will change the current university fees or how the student loans work either. Nor would such a move help those already burdened with debt. This move helps. It is like just about everything else in politics a move to win support, but that does not in any way change the fact that it is still a good thing. (Personally I think democracies should have elections every year. After all, I am sure I am not the only one who noticed that things magically start getting done in the months before an election.) |
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Post by Haseen on Oct 27, 2011 3:58:06 GMT -5
What they should be doing is allow people to consolidate their student debts at the same rate the Fed gives banks. Which is basically free right now. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. And maybe cap the bailed-out students' salaries at $500,000/yr with all the rest going to pay off their debts. But no, I'm just kidding, that'd be a socialist takeover of everything!  |
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Post by RavynousHunter on Oct 27, 2011 4:51:06 GMT -5
sylvana: Well, the one year term has some issues...you'd see more done, sure, but you also wouldn't see as many large plans being unveiled and, if possible, enacted. Its not so much a matter of motivation with big things as it is a matter of logistics. Even many small things need to be examined thoroughly before being enacted, and that takes time. I agree that these guys need to get the lead out because, quite frankly, that's what we fucking pay them for, however, we must also recognize that even small plans require a fair bit of logistics in place first.
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Post by Vene on Oct 27, 2011 9:12:07 GMT -5
What they should be doing is allow people to consolidate their student debts at the same rate the Fed gives banks. Which is basically free right now. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. This is much better. Pardons for the arrested protesters would be nice, that would show he's actually on the side of the movement and serious about helping. |
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Post by Bezron on Oct 27, 2011 9:19:32 GMT -5
A 2% drop on $40,000 saves about $1600 in interest by starting two years early. That’s a fair bit of money. And it is pathetic in comparison to the $40,000 debt that was an inappropriate burden to begin with. ETA: Obama is the "great" compromiser, I'd be shocked if he did something beyond this to ease student debt. Graduates with a $40,000 debt are still fucked, just a little big less so. Then just refuse the lower interest rate and pay at your old rate, since you seem to be so eager to argue how horrible this is. ANY step is a positive step at this point, especially considering how the other side is bound and determined to block everything, no matter how good or needed it is. Some people can see the inherent good in things and make the best of a situation. Some people just like to be contrary and bitch about everything. Guess which group is happier... |
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Post by Vene on Oct 27, 2011 9:29:50 GMT -5
And it is pathetic in comparison to the $40,000 debt that was an inappropriate burden to begin with. ETA: Obama is the "great" compromiser, I'd be shocked if he did something beyond this to ease student debt. Graduates with a $40,000 debt are still fucked, just a little big less so. Then just refuse the lower interest rate and pay at your old rate, since you seem to be so eager to argue how horrible this is. Wow! That is totally a fair characterization of what I said. |
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Oct 27, 2011 13:19:16 GMT -5
Ever heard of the phrase "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth" Vene?
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Post by Vene on Oct 27, 2011 14:35:38 GMT -5
Ever heard of the phrase "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth" Vene? Argumentum ad cliche really should be a fallacy. I could easily counter with something along the lines of beware Greeks bearing gifts. It is a fact that Obama gets most of his donation money from Wall Street and his cabinet is filled with people responsible for the current economic climate. A small reform that leads to the continuation of a busted system really isn't a good reform when the busted system needs dismantling, in fact, it hinders our ability to dismantle it because it can now be sustained for even longer. |
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Post by N. De Plume on Oct 27, 2011 17:57:04 GMT -5
I was unaware that consolidation would lead to the continuation of the system. I figure the system would continue on its own with or without the consolidation. That is, this has zero impact on the system itself.
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Post by sylvana on Oct 28, 2011 1:55:42 GMT -5
I was unaware that consolidation would lead to the continuation of the system. I figure the system would continue on its own with or without the consolidation. That is, this has zero impact on the system itself. This is pretty much how I saw it. I am also curious as to which system Vene finds so objectionable specifically? Is it the way student loans work, the price of studying, how loans work in general or walk street raping the poor? I really don't see how students having a slightly easier time paying off their loans will perpetuate any kind of system. |
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Post by Bezron on Oct 28, 2011 8:54:29 GMT -5
Then just refuse the lower interest rate and pay at your old rate, since you seem to be so eager to argue how horrible this is. Wow! That is totally a fair characterization of what I said. About as fair as your WHARRRGHARBL responses peppered through out the thread. Also, way to completely disregard the remainder of my post, but then I'm not surprised. |
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