|
|
Post by Art Vandelay on Oct 29, 2011 0:39:32 GMT -5
It does matter if their money is ill-gotten and they refuse to pay their share to society. It matters when there are money making machines like private prisons. Even what I posted about art matters. You see, some rich folks wants art that they cannot have or obtain legally so they hire people to steal if for them using criminal means. It matters when they can buy expensive things while laying of their workers, which make them turn to desperate things for money. You were saying? I agree with you at least about the private prisons. Anyone who got wealthy off of government contracts paid for with tax (read: stolen) money are lower than filth. However, if you are a company that provides useful products or services that people VOLUNTARILY pay for, you don't owe anyone anything IMO. Except a large company in a western country would never be able to function in its current state without government services. There's the obvious like roads, rail, electricity and telecommunication lines but then there's also public education (providing a pool of cheap educated potential employees), police (significantly less security expenses) and even government initiatives to improve exports, which directly benefit private businesses. Basically the rich benefit more from government services than the poor, and as such they should pay higher taxes. If you want a more logical, concrete argument, then there's the fact that progressive taxation helps to reduce the magnitude of the boom-bust cycle, especially when coupled with welfare for the poor and unemployed. I don't think I should have to explain how helpful this is for the economy. |
|
|
|
Post by Armand Tanzarian on Oct 29, 2011 0:44:52 GMT -5
In other words:  |
|
|
|
Post by worlder on Oct 29, 2011 0:52:09 GMT -5
If I had great wealth to spare, I would NEVER spend it like how you described. If I had money, I'd give you a million and take you up on that. But since I don't, can you tell me what you'd spend it on? (besides, say charity, because rich people do that too, though primarily as a tax shield) Tax, funding more education on all levels, funding science research, and helping build up some of the countries in Africa via infrastructure. Something that benefits many in the long run. Monumental isn't it. I don't need a mansion, a yacht, or thousand dollar parties. Although I might want 10 mini computers, a wind generator, and solar panels for a personal hobby. |
|
|
|
Post by Art Vandelay on Oct 29, 2011 0:58:26 GMT -5
If I had money, I'd give you a million and take you up on that. But since I don't, can you tell me what you'd spend it on? (besides, say charity, because rich people do that too, though primarily as a tax shield) Tax, funding more education on all levels, funding science research, and helping build up some of the countries in Africa via infrastructure. If you want to build up Africa, the first thing you'll need is a huge influx of security forces to get everyone to behave themselves. Otherwise your fancy new infrastructure will just get destroyed in next week's civil war or if not that then when the local militia happens to be in the area. |
|
|
|
Post by Armand Tanzarian on Oct 29, 2011 1:03:05 GMT -5
If I had money, I'd give you a million and take you up on that. But since I don't, can you tell me what you'd spend it on? (besides, say charity, because rich people do that too, though primarily as a tax shield) Tax, funding more education on all levels, funding science research, and helping build up some of the countries in Africa via infrastructure. Something that benefits many in the long run. Monumental isn't it. I don't need a mansion, a yacht, or thousand dollar parties. Although I might want 10 mini computers, a wind generator, and solar panels for a personal hobby.Great that you want to give parts of it to charity. But I doubt even you will give all your expendable income to charitable causes. Ultimately expendable income can be grouped into 3 groups: Making more money (or saving for a retirement fund), having fun and charity/redistribution. While the 1% takes the first group to a ridiculous extreme, you will still, I assure you, buy way more than just a couple of electronics with your after-tax income. |
|
|
|
Post by worlder on Oct 29, 2011 1:04:04 GMT -5
Tax, funding more education on all levels, funding science research, and helping build up some of the countries in Africa via infrastructure. If you want to build up Africa, the first thing you'll need is a huge influx of security forces to get everyone to behave themselves. Otherwise your fancy new infrastructure will just get destroyed in next week's civil war or if not that then when the local militia happens to be in the area. Really? I thought they would kill everyone else and leave the pipes and electricity lines intact. Yeah, yeah the neutron bomb principle. |
|
|
|
Post by largeham on Oct 29, 2011 2:28:22 GMT -5
I agree with you at least about the private prisons. Anyone who got wealthy off of government contracts paid for with tax (read: stolen) money are lower than filth. However, if you are a company that provides useful products or services that people VOLUNTARILY pay for, you don't owe anyone anything IMO. ... Really, you don't owe anything? Where did your wealth come from? If you provide a good or service and make a profit, where does that profit come from 1? It comes from your workers, not you. Capitalists are leeches, it is workers who create wealth. |
|
|
|
Post by lighthorseman on Oct 29, 2011 2:31:47 GMT -5
I agree with you at least about the private prisons. Anyone who got wealthy off of government contracts paid for with tax (read: stolen) money are lower than filth. However, if you are a company that provides useful products or services that people VOLUNTARILY pay for, you don't owe anyone anything IMO. ... Really, you don't owe anything? Where did your wealth come from? If you provide a good or service and make a profit, where does that profit come from 1? It comes from your workers, not you. Capitalists are leeches, it is workers who create wealth. Well... the capitalists do pay for the means for the workers to make wealth. You can't really have one without the other. |
|
|
|
Post by clockworkgirl21 on Oct 29, 2011 2:57:47 GMT -5
And they probably pay those workers jack shit.
My boyfriend's mom makes washers and dryers at a factory - and makes $10 an hour.
They're very poor.
|
|
|
|
Post by Art Vandelay on Oct 29, 2011 3:07:55 GMT -5
And they probably pay those workers jack shit. My boyfriend's mom makes washers and dryers at a factory - and makes $10 an hour. They're very poor. Therefore you need the government to enforce a liveable minimum wage. That doesn't mean entrepreneurs don't have a valid and necessary role in society, just that they need to be controlled a little better. |
|
|
|
Post by lighthorseman on Oct 29, 2011 3:33:24 GMT -5
And they probably pay those workers jack shit. My boyfriend's mom makes washers and dryers at a factory - and makes $10 an hour. They're very poor. Hey, I'm completely down with the Ford quote... I'm a share holder, and have just this minute sent a email to the CEO of Qantas telling him to pay the damn engineers more money. Not ALL capitalists are greedy pigs out to screw the workers. Art, you hear that he's GROUNDED the national carrier? Fuck! |
|
|
|
Post by Her3tiK on Oct 29, 2011 3:33:46 GMT -5
And they probably pay those workers jack shit. My boyfriend's mom makes washers and dryers at a factory - and makes $10 an hour. They're very poor. Holy shit. Americans still build things? Mind = blown |
|
|
|
Post by Art Vandelay on Oct 29, 2011 3:38:58 GMT -5
Art, you hear that he's GROUNDED the national carrier? Fuck! Ass. I'm going to need to use that airline in a couple of weeks... |
|
|
|
Post by lighthorseman on Oct 29, 2011 3:42:16 GMT -5
Art, you hear that he's GROUNDED the national carrier? Fuck! Ass. I'm going to need to use that airline in a couple of weeks... Well, for what its worth, I'll be voting against him in the next AGM (not that it will do much good. There's a few zeros between the decimal and the first 1 that is my percentage of stock) I sincerely hope it will remain grounded for a matter of hours, if not minutes. Talk about cut your nose of to spite your face. In other news, where you off to in a few weeks? |
|
|
|
Post by Runa on Oct 29, 2011 3:46:04 GMT -5
If I got a few million dollars, I'd set myself up for life and allow myself a decent income, then help out my family and friends, then think about charity. Though I'd be more inclined to offer specific scholarships to disabled, QUILTBAG and older people on low incomes than just give outright to charity.
|
|
