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Post by brendanrizzo on Nov 4, 2011 13:40:09 GMT -5
Is there a reason why they chose to call it "zie"? It looks like they just threw some random letters together. How would you even pronounce that, anyway?
And until you can give me evidence that there are people who do not fit the gender binary (that is, aren't just transgendered, as transgendered people are still either male or female; their sex just does not conform to their gender in this case.) I'm going to assume that that is made up. It seems too ridiculous to be true.
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Nov 4, 2011 14:20:34 GMT -5
I'm just going to use "They" until an actual word that doesn't refer to objects is adapted for use in a more widespread sense.
Also, brendan, it's not made up, it's adapted from another language, and most languages actually have three genders for words - male, female, and neutral. Latin being a notable example, and thus all latin-based languages tend to carry this.
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Post by Shane for Wax on Nov 4, 2011 14:31:11 GMT -5
I see no problem with zie and zir and such like that.
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Nov 4, 2011 14:42:02 GMT -5
I see no problem with zie and zir and such like that. The problem is strictly that it isn't well known yet. Use "They" to refer to a singular person and people will generally get it with context. "So, this individual. What is their appearance?" Use "Zie" and the like to refer to a singular person and people will go "Huh?" "So, this individual. What is zir appearance?" "...Er, what'd you say?"
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Post by VirtualStranger on Nov 4, 2011 14:48:16 GMT -5
My problem is that it's jarring. It sounds forced, (probably because it is) and every time I read it in a sentence it completely throws me off and makes it more difficult to read than necessary.
Besides, the words themselves just sound fucking stupid.
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Post by Vene on Nov 4, 2011 15:09:12 GMT -5
Is there a reason why they chose to call it "zie"? It looks like they just threw some random letters together. How would you even pronounce that, anyway? And until you can give me evidence that there are people who do not fit the gender binary (that is, aren't just transgendered, as transgendered people are still either male or female; their sex just does not conform to their gender in this case.) I'm going to assume that that is made up. It seems too ridiculous to be true. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex
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Post by priestling on Nov 4, 2011 16:21:44 GMT -5
I have a dear friend that's intersex. She prefers female pronouns. Someone else I know prefers male pronouns. Go with what THEY'RE comfortable with.
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Post by Shane for Wax on Nov 4, 2011 16:35:14 GMT -5
I see no problem with zie and zir and such like that. The problem is strictly that it isn't well known yet. Use "They" to refer to a singular person and people will generally get it with context. "So, this individual. What is their appearance?" Use "Zie" and the like to refer to a singular person and people will go "Huh?" "So, this individual. What is zir appearance?" "...Er, what'd you say?" So what is the point of not using it because it isn't well-known? It's even more of a reason to use it so it gets more air time. And I guess it's easy for me because it sounds slightly German and therefore fits in with my household as dad and I sometimes communicate in German.
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Post by Distind on Nov 4, 2011 16:40:45 GMT -5
So what is the point of not using it because it isn't well-known? It's even more of a reason to use it so it gets more air time. And I guess it's easy for me because it sounds slightly German and therefore fits in with my household as dad and I sometimes communicate in German. I'd have to say I think they both look and sound pretty stupid myself. I can understand the point, and don't really think that they fills the gap, but something that far off from the existing isn't going to make it mainstream easily. It'd probably be easier to de-stigmatise it, than get those into common usage. I've actually hear LOL worked into a sentence better than either of them, and I still twitch when I hear it. Frankly, I'm content to do like priestling and use whatever they go by, assuming I manage to pick up on it. Or my more typical response of using someone's name to refer to them, because until I get that down there's no way in hell I'm going to nail any non-apparent gender.
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Nov 4, 2011 16:42:26 GMT -5
The problem is strictly that it isn't well known yet. Use "They" to refer to a singular person and people will generally get it with context. "So, this individual. What is their appearance?" Use "Zie" and the like to refer to a singular person and people will go "Huh?" "So, this individual. What is zir appearance?" "...Er, what'd you say?" So what is the point of not using it because it isn't well-known? It's even more of a reason to use it so it gets more air time. And I guess it's easy for me because it sounds slightly German and therefore fits in with my household as dad and I sometimes communicate in German. Because I'd have to explain it over and over and over to everyone I use it in conversation with. Probably multiple times with the same people. And even then, it wouldn't stick. I'd be treated the same way someone would treat anyone above the age of 6 who decided to refer to trains as "zoobleshurs" and trees as "nagbai" or whatever.
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Post by Admiral Lithp on Nov 4, 2011 17:17:40 GMT -5
I've changed my mind, I don't like "it." Why? Because of "it's." Every time I use that word, it sounds like I have a speech impediment. I like "they," that's something I can actually use in the near future.
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Post by Shane for Wax on Nov 4, 2011 18:09:14 GMT -5
We've been over the whole zir/zie thing before. With the same exact people being against it for the sake of their own convenience. So there's really no point in me pointing out once again it's for someone else's comfort that you refer to them with the pronoun they would like you to employ. No point in it but I did it anyways.
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Post by Admiral Lithp on Nov 4, 2011 18:23:57 GMT -5
There's no point in you saying that because it's only part of the point. As Zachski notes, it's not effective communication if only a few people get it.
Another thing, I don't get this ridiculous no compromise attitude. I don't see how X's lack of comfort automatically trumps Y's. Surely X & Y can come to an agreement that will satisfy both of them. And if X is saying, "It's not about YOU, it's all about ME!" then fuck X. X is a douche.
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Post by Wykked Wytch on Nov 4, 2011 18:42:54 GMT -5
I only use zie on the internet, where people can Google it. Never in, you know, actual work. It's like "y'all." You can use it when you're with your friends, but not in a meeting with the CEO of a major corporation.
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Nov 4, 2011 18:54:41 GMT -5
We've been over the whole zir/zie thing before. With the same exact people being against it for the sake of their own convenience. So there's really no point in me pointing out once again it's for someone else's comfort that you refer to them with the pronoun they would like you to employ. No point in it but I did it anyways. First of all, if someone specifically asks to be referred to as zie/zir, then I'll oblige them. However, I'd hardly call it an issue of convenience. If you had to talk to someone and redefine a word every single time you spoke to them, simply because it, A. isn't English, and B. isn't commonly used, then I have a feeling it's defeating its own purpose. Not to mention, like I said, I don't want to look like a cuckoo.
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