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Post by the_ignored on Nov 11, 2011 3:17:12 GMT -5
Yep. Exactly. Hence, the big bang beats biblegod.
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Dan
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Post by Dan on Nov 11, 2011 3:52:26 GMT -5
I'm hoping someone here can translate for me so's I can understand it without having to OD on my cold medication. For some reason it's trying to present the First Cause argument without making direct reference to things, events and causes. When it says "a potential cannot actualise itself" what it means is "events can't cause themselves to happen." Then there's a subtle error of logic by implicitly expanding this to include events that happen without any cause. So by the time it gets to the chains of "actuals" and "potentials" you're into the standard First Cause argument, culminating in the ludicrous (il)logical leap of attributing to this First Cause all of the traditional attributes of the Christian God, and the further leap of declaring that this must therefore be the Christian God.
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Post by Twilight Zone on Nov 11, 2011 4:06:36 GMT -5
Which doesn't take wave function into account, our universe is but one of an infinite number of parallel universes. Theists can only claim that God created our universe and not the infinite others which affect all probabilities of anything happening in our universe.
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Post by Random Guy on Nov 11, 2011 5:57:10 GMT -5
The main way the creationists try to explain why we can see things more than 6000 light-years away is by a) claiming that God created the light "in transit" and b) claiming that the speed of light isn't constant and used to be faster, occasionally with some term like "c-decay" thrown in to sound scientific. Naturally, the first statement is just a pointless cop-out while the second takes a questionably-accurate hypothesis about the speed of light being variable and cranks it up to utterly stupid levels just to support their preconceived notions.
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Post by Star Cluster on Nov 11, 2011 8:11:11 GMT -5
God gets a special exception. It makes no sense for a god to be created, because that defeats the whole argument. Giving the universe that exception is wrong, because that also defeats the argument. Ditto for a god that isn't BibleGod. What? That hasn't stopped humans from creating gods since humans have existed. edit I have a question for anyone who attempts to prove the existence of God. If God created the heavens and the Earth thousands of years ago, why are there stellar objects billions of light years away? Because for their radiation to be observable and/or detectable it took that radiation billions of years to reach our planet. www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39686284/ns/technology_and_science-space/t/galactic-heat-wave-unleashed-fierce-radiation-blast/The answer they have for that is that God made the objects with the light in transit, meaning that the were instantly visible. It's a load of bullocks, but that's how they answer it. My question would be, especially if it is as they claim that Earth was created just so God could plunk humans on it, and if it's unique and the only inhabited planet, why would God need to create all those distant celestial objects? If you look at the sky on a clear, dark night, you can see thousands of stars. But what you see spread across the sky is an infinitesimally small percentage of the number of objects in the universe. What was the purpose for a god to create all those objects if there was no way to see them without special instruments? Why would it need to create objects such as nebulae, quasars, or black holes. Just what logical purpose do they serve if all this is set up just for us? These questions are why I have the statement under my avatar. Forget about the light issue. I want to know why the objects needed to be created in the first place.
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Post by N. De Plume on Nov 11, 2011 8:44:47 GMT -5
Forget about the light issue. I want to know why the objects needed to be created in the first place. Why must you question God? He is God! His motivations are beyond our comprehension!
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Post by Star Cluster on Nov 11, 2011 11:46:02 GMT -5
Forget about the light issue. I want to know why the objects needed to be created in the first place. Why must you question God? He is God! His motivations are beyond our comprehension! Yeah, you're right. That's what happens when you start thinking for yourself and using logic and common sense and stuff. ;D
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Post by mechtaur on Nov 11, 2011 12:18:42 GMT -5
I love to answer all of these arguments with "Ok, so if at least one god exists, why should I believe yours and not something else?"
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Post by Admiral Lithp on Nov 11, 2011 18:16:29 GMT -5
Aquinas was a pretty cool thinker in his day, back when it was essentially illegal to get much more creative with theology than he did.
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Post by Old Viking on Nov 11, 2011 18:33:31 GMT -5
"Every effect must have an antecedent cause, but you must grant us one little exception to this rule."
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Dan
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Posts: 228
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Post by Dan on Nov 12, 2011 10:41:50 GMT -5
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