Post by foolishwisdom on Nov 23, 2011 16:10:23 GMT -5
Yes, when you and your family gather around the table, talking about life, and happiness, you might feel the urge to talk about something controversial. Like maybe same-sex marriage. Well, if you do intend to bring it up, Maggie Gallagher has some good points to help you out.
She merely brings up three points:
1. State your position briefly.
2. Refute the charge of bigotry.
3. A call to tolerance.
Yeah, it's more amusing then you could imagine. I first saw this on the Good As You website. www.goodasyou.org/good_as_you/2011/11/video-as-promised-maggie-gallaghers-thanksgiving-advice.html
I've already offered my rant there, so I'm gonna copy my rant here:
So...because gay marriage exists, people who feel that 1man+1woman=marriage (I'll call it “traditional” marriage when you define “traditional” correctly) have to discuss it?
In other words, it's the gay's fault that you can't have nice things.
The problem here isn’t that, “I believe marriage should be one man and one woman, but that makes me a bigot”, the problem is, “I believe marriage should be one man and one woman, but that makes me a bigot, and that's my sole reason for gay people to not get married.”
If you believe marriage is between one man and one woman, that's fair game, in the end it's just an opinion, but it's not an excuse to bar others from marriage. Especially since straight people will, and may, still get married.
Two points:
1. What good is “mommy” & “daddy” making a baby if they're infertile? That's because fertile sperms and eggs are what make babies, not “mommy” & “daddy” merely wearing a wedding dress and tuxedo (respectively) saying “I do” to each other. Besides, there are other ways to make a child, whether a surrogate, or in vitro fertilization. And don’t bitch to me about such things going “against” God, or nature. God said to “multiply the earth with your fruit” (something like that), he didn't say how; and nature isn't sentient, so it doesn’t care ether way.
2. Rape can also make a baby, but I'm sure you'll agree with me that that's an unethical way of making one. Ignoring issues of conceiving the baby or aborting it, since that's way off topic, my memory on the Bible is a bit rusty, but I'm pretty sure the raped woman has to marry her rapest. Yeah, that's a traditional marriage...
You just went from, “marriage is about making babies” to, “children are optional.”
“I have many gay/lesbian/etc. friends, but...”
You don't like the Gov't telling you what marriage is, but you don't mind it telling others that marriage should be between a man and a woman. Indecently, and as I pointed out above, extending marriage to gay people will not stop straight people from marrying.
...I'm not gonna bother touching this one.
People have different perspectives of what's “different”, ergo, your opinions of who's different, and how they should be treated is just that, an opinion. In other words, this is just a red herring excuse to treat people differently then you, and giving you that warm feeling that what you're doing is “right”.
Additionally, this goes against the golden rule (and possibly the silver rule too, but I digress), so as far as I'm concerned, if you treat someone differently, regardless if it's in their best interests or not, and you think you're doing a good thing by causing that kind of disruption, then the fault is with you.
Also, we are all individuals, everyone is different. We just shrug it off because we do have somethings in common, or otherwise we take it for granted. But the former proves my point why this argument is bull: This may come as a shock to you, but people treat things differently when what they deem to be “different” is, rather unsurprisingly, So for example, if a man with blond hair agrees with you; well he's not a female with brown(?) hair, ergo he's different form you; but the fact he believes the same thing you do, which is a hot topic, apparently he's not “different”. Likewise, if you meet a women who could be your twin, but she disagrees with you, well the fact she thinks gay people should get married is proof she's “different”. In other words, it's only different if they have a trait that you dislike, so “treat different things differently” would, in my book, qualify as “bigoted, or hateful, or discriminatory”.
(I didn't specify the sexual orientation of the two people because I didn't think it was necessary, nor did it matter much.)
*As Uncle* “One more thing...”
This kind of thinking is very lazy.
You brought it up, and I see you have more interest in conflict, then with peace: You want the “ebil gays” to get riled up at a family holiday, then shout truce so you won't be the bad guy, despite raising the topic in the first place. In other words, even in such a holiday as Thanksgiving, a time for family (other then Christmas), you want chaos to purposely rise up, just so you can prove gay people are unworthy. You truly are a vile one,Mr. Grinch Mrs. Gallagher, it's becoming evident to me you have no interest in peace among wo/men, regardless of orientation.
Like I said, you're the one who brought it up, you're the one interested in causing conflict.
If that's not bigotry, I hate to see what is...and denying marriage to gays may not be out of hate for all, but in the end, excuses like, “I believe it's between one man, & one woman”, “It's not natural”, etc. Just feel like red herrings to cover up the real reason, “I hate it”. And you know you can't say it because it's not gonna fly.
Third time not so charming; you brought it up, and you're the one who raised the conflict. And like it or not, you have someone whom you're related to that's gay, and despite the treat something different, blah, blah, blah, crap excuse, that gay family member is still your family, and they should be treated like family.
Please, stop while you're ahead...or behind, depending on how the argument is doing.
By stating truce, and say you're not, “The millions of Americans...[who] are not all haters or bigots”.
You want to cause conflict among families by stating what's immoral, then tell everyone to be nice to each other and shut-up? Wtf is wrong with you?
“I don't believe in gay 'marrage'*, WHY ARE YOU YELLING AT ME?! eat your pie.”
On a side note, Mrs. Gallagher, I suggest you stop using the word “moral”, people may get the idea you know what it means.
Assuming they don't kill each other...
*I put it in quotes, 'cause I knew Maggie would've wanted it that way
She merely brings up three points:
1. State your position briefly.
2. Refute the charge of bigotry.
3. A call to tolerance.
Yeah, it's more amusing then you could imagine. I first saw this on the Good As You website. www.goodasyou.org/good_as_you/2011/11/video-as-promised-maggie-gallaghers-thanksgiving-advice.html
I've already offered my rant there, so I'm gonna copy my rant here:
But like it or not, the gay 'marriage'* movement has cultivated a rather low threshold of moral indignation.
So...because gay marriage exists, people who feel that 1man+1woman=marriage (I'll call it “traditional” marriage when you define “traditional” correctly) have to discuss it?
In other words, it's the gay's fault that you can't have nice things.
If you don't think two men in a union are in marriage, then you are a bigot.
The problem here isn’t that, “I believe marriage should be one man and one woman, but that makes me a bigot”, the problem is, “I believe marriage should be one man and one woman, but that makes me a bigot, and that's my sole reason for gay people to not get married.”
If you believe marriage is between one man and one woman, that's fair game, in the end it's just an opinion, but it's not an excuse to bar others from marriage. Especially since straight people will, and may, still get married.
Marriage is the union of husband and wife for a reason: these are the only unions that can make new life. And give those children a mommy and a daddy.
Two points:
1. What good is “mommy” & “daddy” making a baby if they're infertile? That's because fertile sperms and eggs are what make babies, not “mommy” & “daddy” merely wearing a wedding dress and tuxedo (respectively) saying “I do” to each other. Besides, there are other ways to make a child, whether a surrogate, or in vitro fertilization. And don’t bitch to me about such things going “against” God, or nature. God said to “multiply the earth with your fruit” (something like that), he didn't say how; and nature isn't sentient, so it doesn’t care ether way.
2. Rape can also make a baby, but I'm sure you'll agree with me that that's an unethical way of making one. Ignoring issues of conceiving the baby or aborting it, since that's way off topic, my memory on the Bible is a bit rusty, but I'm pretty sure the raped woman has to marry her rapest. Yeah, that's a traditional marriage...
...if they have a child.
You just went from, “marriage is about making babies” to, “children are optional.”
Well other unions may have wonderful qualities, but...
“I have many gay/lesbian/etc. friends, but...”
...they're not marriages, and we shouldn’t be force by Government...
You don't like the Gov't telling you what marriage is, but you don't mind it telling others that marriage should be between a man and a woman. Indecently, and as I pointed out above, extending marriage to gay people will not stop straight people from marrying.
...To pretend they are
...I'm not gonna bother touching this one.
It's not bigoted, or hateful, or discriminatory to treat different things differently.
People have different perspectives of what's “different”, ergo, your opinions of who's different, and how they should be treated is just that, an opinion. In other words, this is just a red herring excuse to treat people differently then you, and giving you that warm feeling that what you're doing is “right”.
Additionally, this goes against the golden rule (and possibly the silver rule too, but I digress), so as far as I'm concerned, if you treat someone differently, regardless if it's in their best interests or not, and you think you're doing a good thing by causing that kind of disruption, then the fault is with you.
Also, we are all individuals, everyone is different. We just shrug it off because we do have somethings in common, or otherwise we take it for granted. But the former proves my point why this argument is bull: This may come as a shock to you, but people treat things differently when what they deem to be “different” is, rather unsurprisingly, So for example, if a man with blond hair agrees with you; well he's not a female with brown(?) hair, ergo he's different form you; but the fact he believes the same thing you do, which is a hot topic, apparently he's not “different”. Likewise, if you meet a women who could be your twin, but she disagrees with you, well the fact she thinks gay people should get married is proof she's “different”. In other words, it's only different if they have a trait that you dislike, so “treat different things differently” would, in my book, qualify as “bigoted, or hateful, or discriminatory”.
(I didn't specify the sexual orientation of the two people because I didn't think it was necessary, nor did it matter much.)
*As Uncle* “One more thing...”
This kind of thinking is very lazy.
I think we need to be tolerant of each other. Sincere moral differences of these hot button issues.
You brought it up, and I see you have more interest in conflict, then with peace: You want the “ebil gays” to get riled up at a family holiday, then shout truce so you won't be the bad guy, despite raising the topic in the first place. In other words, even in such a holiday as Thanksgiving, a time for family (other then Christmas), you want chaos to purposely rise up, just so you can prove gay people are unworthy. You truly are a vile one,
Especially inside families
Like I said, you're the one who brought it up, you're the one interested in causing conflict.
The millions of Americans like me who do not support gay 'marriage'* are not all haters or bigots.
If that's not bigotry, I hate to see what is...and denying marriage to gays may not be out of hate for all, but in the end, excuses like, “I believe it's between one man, & one woman”, “It's not natural”, etc. Just feel like red herrings to cover up the real reason, “I hate it”. And you know you can't say it because it's not gonna fly.
And it's really not kind or tolerant to suggest otherwise. Especially among family members.
Third time not so charming; you brought it up, and you're the one who raised the conflict. And like it or not, you have someone whom you're related to that's gay, and despite the treat something different, blah, blah, blah, crap excuse, that gay family member is still your family, and they should be treated like family.
Repeat step three, as often as necessary.
Please, stop while you're ahead...or behind, depending on how the argument is doing.
Remember, this Thanksgiving, you can stand your ground.
By stating truce, and say you're not, “The millions of Americans...[who] are not all haters or bigots”.
And call on friends and family members to be tolerant of one another in the midst, of serious moral disagreement
You want to cause conflict among families by stating what's immoral, then tell everyone to be nice to each other and shut-up? Wtf is wrong with you?
You can stand your ground on same-sex 'marriage'*, and have the moral high-ground too.
“I don't believe in gay 'marrage'*, WHY ARE YOU YELLING AT ME?! eat your pie.”
On a side note, Mrs. Gallagher, I suggest you stop using the word “moral”, people may get the idea you know what it means.
Wishing you and your family a very, very happy and blessed Thanksgiving.
Assuming they don't kill each other...
*I put it in quotes, 'cause I knew Maggie would've wanted it that way