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Post by mechtaur on Dec 24, 2011 10:03:12 GMT -5
"You haven't studied the Bible as much as I have, I think I know what's in it." Cue proving this statement false after a lot of questions. Guess what, dickwad? I did read the Bible quite thoroughly. Just because my favorite part is Revelations doesn't mean I don't know anything else about what's in it. Revelation. Singular.
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Dec 24, 2011 14:46:39 GMT -5
"He could do that, but it would be interfering with your free will. He's testing you so that YOU know you're capable of overcoming minor trials like unemployment." Why must we be able to overcome our trials? An omnipotent and omnibenevolent god is, by definition, capable and willing to help us out all the time. Such a being is capable of preventing the trials to begin with. And it is the not-so-minor “trials”— ones far worse than unemployment—that are the real concern here. I could also go on a tangent about free will here, but I think that would be too much… Mmm, I could continue the faux argument, but it wouldn't be fun anymore. However, that reminds me of a Christian meme (not so much a specific phrase but that the phrases are based on this meme) If something happened to you that prevented you from coming to harm, or it happened to someone who wasn't Christian, it's "God speaking" If something happened happened to you that harmed you or other Christians, it's "Satan". It could even be the exact same event, it's just so much doublethink.
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Kali
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by Kali on Dec 24, 2011 16:25:17 GMT -5
Oh, I hate when people say things like that. Maybe it just happened. Maybe you're not as important as you think. And the people who are all "I saw a butterfly! I prayed I would see a butterfly and God answered me!" Um, no, that's not how it works. You were specifically looking for a butterfly, you were outside where they live, of course there's a good chance you'll see one. Like thinking about a song, and then hearing it everywhere for a few days.
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Post by lexikon on Dec 24, 2011 22:13:00 GMT -5
Also personal expeciances are not unique to people of one religion.
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Post by Sigmaleph on Dec 25, 2011 19:01:50 GMT -5
Oh, I hate when people say things like that. Maybe it just happened. Maybe you're not as important as you think. And the people who are all "I saw a butterfly! I prayed I would see a butterfly and God answered me!" Um, no, that's not how it works. You were specifically looking for a butterfly, you were outside where they live, of course there's a good chance you'll see one. Like thinking about a song, and then hearing it everywhere for a few days. The obvious answer to that is "If you hadn't seen a butterfly, would that be evidence that prayer doesn't work?" Not that I expect the kind of person who says that to appreciate such subtleties.
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Post by rookie on Dec 27, 2011 11:53:43 GMT -5
"Mom, I am going through [some sort of issue]." "Have you prayed about it?" "No, I was busy trying to find a way out of the situation." "What you need to do is try asking God for help." "No, what I need is a solution to the problem."
Also, the disbelief that I am not a Christian. I get that every now and then. It's like the reaction I would expect if I told them I quit my high paying job and went off to live in the woods in a tent. The inability that someone would choose to believe something different than what they believe both scares and saddens me.
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Post by N. De Plume on Dec 27, 2011 16:54:21 GMT -5
Why must we be able to overcome our trials? An omnipotent and omnibenevolent god is, by definition, capable and willing to help us out all the time. Such a being is capable of preventing the trials to begin with. And it is the not-so-minor “trials”— ones far worse than unemployment—that are the real concern here. I could also go on a tangent about free will here, but I think that would be too much… Mmm, I could continue the faux argument, but it wouldn't be fun anymore. No prob. Though I’m willing to keep it up with anyone else who finds it enjoyable. It’s more-or-less on topic, too, as it dredges up some of those distasteful phrases. Like thinking about a song, and then hearing it everywhere for a few days. I am reminded of how I never really consciously registered ever hearing any songs by Foreigner, except maybe “Hot Blooded.” Then I see one little episode of Aqua Teen Hunger Force, and suddenly I am hearing “Cold as Ice” and “Double Vision” everywhere!
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Post by The_L on Dec 28, 2011 12:28:43 GMT -5
I am reminded of how I never really consciously registered ever hearing any songs by Foreigner, except maybe “Hot Blooded.” Then I see one little episode of Aqua Teen Hunger Force, and suddenly I am hearing “Cold as Ice” and “Double Vision” everywhere! Don't forget "Head Games!"
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Post by Rat Of Steel on Dec 28, 2011 12:42:27 GMT -5
</thread derailment> ;D
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Post by The_L on Dec 28, 2011 14:20:47 GMT -5
"Cold as Ice" was still better. I dislike the phrase "family values" because, silly me, I always assumed that the traditional family values were honesty, loyalty, fairness, and unconditional love. Apparently instead they are hating on gay people, railing against divorce, and forcing women to have babies if their wombs happen to be occupied.
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Post by N. De Plume on Dec 28, 2011 16:04:46 GMT -5
I am reminded of how I never really consciously registered ever hearing any songs by Foreigner, except maybe “Hot Blooded.” Then I see one little episode of Aqua Teen Hunger Force, and suddenly I am hearing “Cold as Ice” and “Double Vision” everywhere! Don't forget "Head Games!" Yeah. There’s that. Strangely enough, I still don’t hear “Dirty White Boy” very often.
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Post by lexikon on Dec 29, 2011 15:16:49 GMT -5
"Cold as Ice" was still better. I dislike the phrase "family values" because, silly me, I always assumed that the traditional family values were honesty, loyalty, fairness, and unconditional love. Apparently instead they are hating on gay people, railing against divorce, and forcing women to have babies if their wombs happen to be occupied. So not too different from tradition.
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Post by Iosa the Invincible on Dec 31, 2011 9:18:57 GMT -5
I hate it when pro-lifers act like the only reason a woman got pregnant is because she didn't use birth control. Using birth control doesn't guarantee you won't get pregnant; it just decreases the chances. And that's not even going into the issues of rape.
Edit: I'd also like to add pro-lifers who talk about "responsibility" and "consequences." You can't insist that the life of a fetus is sacred, then act like its main purpose is to serve as a punishment. That's completely degrading, especially if you consider a fetus a person. This is particularly evident when they say that women abort their babies to avoid consequence. Abortion is a consequence. It's true that some women treat it lightly, but for many women, it's a hard decision to even consider, let alone go through. In the end, they have to live with their conscious decision. Taking responsibility means making a decision regarding a situation, not making the decision you think is right.
It's funny how pro-lifers like to tell stories of women who are mentally and emotionally crushed because they had an abortion, then say that having an abortion is avoiding consequence. What, being emotionally crippled due to a decision isn't enough of a 'consequence' for you? Why the need to force children to be born so they can punish their mothers, increasing the likelihood of the child itself having a poor life? If you think that it's murder, say it's murder. If you think it's a person, call it a person. But don't call it a consequence like it's something that should be hated by the one who's pregnant. And yes, since women are apparently having abortions to "avoid the consequences and responsibility," that means it's something they don't want to do, meaning that the consequence is negative and they're taking responsibility for a bad or undesirable consequence.
Some women are happy they didn't abort, some women aren't. And for those that aren't and kept their baby, that's sometimes bad news for the baby. And believe it or not, there are women with children who wish they didn't have them but still love their children. I know because a family member of mine is one. She's said more than once that she never wanted kids, and never really wanted to get married, but did because it was expected of her. She's told me that if she could do her life over again she would not have kids, and preferably not get married. This doesn't mean that she hates her children or was neglectful to them growing up. She loves them very much. She just wishes she could've lived her life the way she wanted to, and that includes not having kids. When I told her I don't plan on having kids at all, she said 'don't ever let anyone talk or guilt you into having them if you don't want to have them.'
If you're wondering what this has to do with anything (I was wondering that myself for a while), I guess it's an argument against the ideals pro-lifers have that once a woman has and keeps a baby, the woman instantly falls in love with the child and could never imagine life without the child, and that the child is the best thing that ever happened in their life, and any woman who feels different is a horrible parent. Some women are grateful for their children and can't imagine not having them, and others love their children but still would've preferred it if they had waited until later in their life, or to not have had any to begin with. I know it seems weird or oxymoronic, but it's possible.
I dislike typing huge posts. I tend to go off on long tangents.
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Post by Wykked Wytch on Jan 1, 2012 20:45:12 GMT -5
I hate it when pro-lifers act like the only reason a woman got pregnant is because she didn't use birth control. Using birth control doesn't guarantee you won't get pregnant; it just decreases the chances. And that's not even going into the issues of rape. Edit: I'd also like to add pro-lifers who talk about "responsibility" and "consequences." You can't insist that the life of a fetus is sacred, then act like its main purpose is to serve as a punishment. That's completely degrading, especially if you consider a fetus a person. This is particularly evident when they say that women abort their babies to avoid consequence. Abortion is a consequence. It's true that some women treat it lightly, but for many women, it's a hard decision to even consider, let alone go through. In the end, they have to live with their conscious decision. Taking responsibility means making a decision regarding a situation, not making the decision you think is right. It's funny how pro-lifers like to tell stories of women who are mentally and emotionally crushed because they had an abortion, then say that having an abortion is avoiding consequence. What, being emotionally crippled due to a decision isn't enough of a 'consequence' for you? Why the need to force children to be born so they can punish their mothers, increasing the likelihood of the child itself having a poor life? If you think that it's murder, say it's murder. If you think it's a person, call it a person. But don't call it a consequence like it's something that should be hated by the one who's pregnant. And yes, since women are apparently having abortions to "avoid the consequences and responsibility," that means it's something they don't want to do, meaning that the consequence is negative and they're taking responsibility for a bad or undesirable consequence. Some women are happy they didn't abort, some women aren't. And for those that aren't and kept their baby, that's sometimes bad news for the baby. And believe it or not, there are women with children who wish they didn't have them but still love their children. I know because a family member of mine is one. She's said more than once that she never wanted kids, and never really wanted to get married, but did because it was expected of her. She's told me that if she could do her life over again she would not have kids, and preferably not get married. This doesn't mean that she hates her children or was neglectful to them growing up. She loves them very much. She just wishes she could've lived her life the way she wanted to, and that includes not having kids. When I told her I don't plan on having kids at all, she said 'don't ever let anyone talk or guilt you into having them if you don't want to have them.' If you're wondering what this has to do with anything (I was wondering that myself for a while), I guess it's an argument against the ideals pro-lifers have that once a woman has and keeps a baby, the woman instantly falls in love with the child and could never imagine life without the child, and that the child is the best thing that ever happened in their life, and any woman who feels different is a horrible parent. Some women are grateful for their children and can't imagine not having them, and others love their children but still would've preferred it if they had waited until later in their life, or to not have had any to begin with. I know it seems weird or oxymoronic, but it's possible. I dislike typing huge posts. I tend to go off on long tangents. Once I got in an argument with a pro-lifer who said that women should be forced to bring fetuses to term because "their instincts will kick in eventually." He went on to say that women who say they don't want children are freaks of nature.
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Post by ironbite on Jan 1, 2012 21:29:40 GMT -5
He eh?
Ironbite-explains a lot.
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