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Post by Caitshidhe on Dec 5, 2011 13:06:45 GMT -5
Why do they need to master writing it? What point is there? I do absolutely believe everyone should be able to READ script but why should everybody have to 'master' writing it? There is no actual legitimate answer to that. And so what if it used to be considered 'rude' to send correspondence to someone in anything but lacy flowery script? It also used to be rude not to stand when someone left the table and insurmountably rude to drink wine at dinner without having someone drink with you. It used to be rude to talk about body parts (I mean even so much as saying the word 'leg' or 'stomach') in front of other people. Just because things USED to be a certain way doesn't mean that it should still be that way or was the best option for everyone. Times change and people holding onto old practices for no other reason than because they're somehow more worthy by virtue of being old just look pathetic and obstinately old-fashioned.
Also, I can't make change in my head. Not because I can't be fucked to learn but because I am so horrible with numbers. I was TAUGHT to do it and can usually work it out on a piece of paper but I can't do it in my head simply because I'm not wired that way.
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Post by cestlefun17 on Dec 5, 2011 13:15:28 GMT -5
By "master" I don't mean you have to have the talent of a medieval scribe, I'm just saying that before a child can say he doesn't like something he has to have at least tried it, and more than just for a day before saying "This is too hard, I quit!" Once a child learns to write in script, then she is capable of making a choice. I'm not saying I agree with your teachers' rationale; I'm just telling you what it is. In their mind, having someone write print to them would be like you receiving a birthday card from your friend smeared in dog poop (ok perhaps I'm exaggerating ). (And I kinda wish many of those things were still considered rude. )
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Post by canadian mojo on Dec 5, 2011 13:28:47 GMT -5
I can write a hell of a lot faster than I can print, and I can print faster than I type.
...but I'm old.
I find that cursive literally flows better and faster when putting things down on paper. Pen and paper, while outdated, are hardly extinct.
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Post by the sandman on Dec 5, 2011 13:41:55 GMT -5
Finally, some good news. I'm practically the only person I know who writes in cursive. It's a dying art. See there, you hit the nail right on the head. Script calligraphy is an art. Pretty much always has been, but in today's technological world, it is not a very useful art. The absolute most important factor in any written communication today is clarity and ease of reading, and script, while decidedly elegant and beautiful, does not lend itself well to this priority. Fast, accurate keyboarding and clear, regular printing are far more useful in today's world. Which is not to say that script calligraphy is not valuable, it's just not really necessary. Script calligraphy does not add meaning or context to the written message, and can, at times, impede efficient decoding. When you look at something printed and something script and judge the script superior, you are making that judgment on the aesthetic merits of the physical handwriting, not on its content or ease of reading. And while that's certainly a valid method of appraisal, it's not a very practical one for today's world. Few schools seriously teach script anymore because it is no longer the preferred method of written communication. It is now fully an art form for all practical purposes. In 2011, forcing students to write in script calligraphy makes about as much sense as requiring them to illustrate their English 101 compositions with original oil paintings. Script is a wonderful and occasionally beautiful art form, but that's really all it is now. It was originally developed as a method for writing that kept the pen nib in constant contact with the paper, thus preventing ink blooms and fiber breaks which would destroy the legibility of the writing. This is simply not an issue anymore, which makes script a little like the writing equivalent of riding a horse. Fun, interesting, and with a long and noble tradition, but not a skill that's really necessary in the modern world.
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Post by syaoranvee on Dec 5, 2011 13:51:40 GMT -5
When I was in the third grade, we were taught cursive and were made to write that way for rest of the school year, my teacher believing that every other teacher would require it in the higher grades. Guess what, they didn't. I've never written anything extensive in cursive past the third grade and nobody cares.
Quite frankly, I think they're should be a small segment of time for it in schools for you to be able to write your own name in cursive but beyond that, it's not needed anymore.
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Post by Smurfette Principle on Dec 5, 2011 13:51:55 GMT -5
I write faster in cursive but read print better, so I end up with a sort of weird cursive-y print-like script.
Also, for everyone who says they need to be able to read it but not write it: no. They need to know both. It is much easier to read something when you can write it.
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Post by Vene on Dec 5, 2011 13:59:20 GMT -5
Finally, some good news. I'm practically the only person I know who writes in cursive. It's a dying art. See there, you hit the nail right on the head. Script calligraphy is an art. Pretty much always has been, but in today's technological world, it is not a very useful art. The absolute most important factor in any written communication today is clarity and ease of reading, and script, while decidedly elegant and beautiful, does not lend itself well to this priority. Fast, accurate keyboarding and clear, regular printing are far more useful in today's world. Which is not to say that script calligraphy is not valuable, it's just not really necessary. Script calligraphy does not add meaning or context to the written message, and can, at times, impede efficient decoding. When you look at something printed and something script and judge the script superior, you are making that judgment on the aesthetic merits of the physical handwriting, not on its content or ease of reading. And while that's certainly a valid method of appraisal, it's not a very practical one for today's world. Few schools seriously teach script anymore because it is no longer the preferred method of written communication. It is now fully an art form for all practical purposes. In 2011, forcing students to write in script calligraphy makes about as much sense as requiring them to illustrate their English 101 compositions with original oil paintings. Script is a wonderful and occasionally beautiful art form, but that's really all it is now. It was originally developed as a method for writing that kept the pen nib in constant contact with the paper, thus preventing ink blooms and fiber breaks which would destroy the legibility of the writing. This is simply not an issue anymore, which makes script a little like the writing equivalent of riding a horse. Fun, interesting, and with a long and noble tradition, but not a skill that's really necessary in the modern world. This exactly sums up my thoughts on the matter.
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Post by Old Viking on Dec 5, 2011 14:36:52 GMT -5
Print is fine. Especially if it's in crayon or magic marker.
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Post by Admiral Lithp on Dec 5, 2011 15:14:22 GMT -5
I remember how to write very few letters outside of the ones in my name in cursive because I just never use it. Looking back, I spent a huge portion of my elementary school on it. And it was all a giant waste of time. I even said it would be a giant waste of time. But I was assured that I would need cursive so much when I got to higher levels of schooling. Guess what, I clearly did not. No, I do not think anyone needs to learn cursive. Let it go, people.
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Post by DeadpanDoubter on Dec 5, 2011 15:18:05 GMT -5
I was yanked out of an actual schooling environment and into an "unschooling" environment the second day of 3rd grade, though we did a bit of cursive in 2nd grade to prepare us for how much we would TOTLLY NEED TO USE IT SRSLY GAIZ.
After 5 years of college, I use it for 1. writing checks and 2. signing my name. My cursive is atrocious, but it doesn't matter.
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Post by RavynousHunter on Dec 5, 2011 15:53:04 GMT -5
Yeah...my cursive sucks, too. Unless I'm taking my time, such as for artwork or something, its kinda...messy. My print is at least somewhat more legible, and its far faster for me. Though, I'm far faster typing than I am writing. I can thank online gaming for that, especially in the days before VOIP.
Should cursive be taught? Sure. Learning different things is good for the mind, especially early on, but forcing it is not how it ought to be done. Forcing things on kids only makes them resent you.
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Post by Runa on Dec 5, 2011 16:02:39 GMT -5
WTF? I would sooner they learnt to spell properly than worry about fucking cursive!
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Post by Yla on Dec 5, 2011 16:15:04 GMT -5
Children learning to write better through cursive and develop their own handwriting style? Nice theory, but in my experience, the practice is different.
I was taught cursive as the second script next to print, with about the same rigidity and strict adherence to rules (now draw the pencil up there, and then a circle and a long swing back down...). I continued to write with them (because that's how we all were supposed to do it.) While I didn't hate it and my words were reasonably legible, I also wasn't particularly happy with it. Only in 10th grade, I reverted to a block variant, with which I was a bit faster, I myself could read it better, while others didn't complain (can't tell more than that. When they did complain, it was about size). Since I now didn't write according to rules anymore, I was unhesitating to experiment. I'm quite happy with it, and don't even sign in cursive.
TL;DR: being taught cursive doesn't teach you to write well and in your own style. It teaches you to write cursive, nothing more. The kids need to be encouraged to write how they personally feel like (and still be legible). That isn't done, and would it be done, it's independent of cursive. The problem lies elsewhere, and again forcing children to write in a specific style as opposed to another one isn't going to fix it.
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Post by Meshakhad on Dec 5, 2011 16:31:13 GMT -5
I hated cursive, but then again I have dysgraphia. Handwriting is actually painful for me. I only use cursive for writing my signature. I find that printing is faster, when I'm not actually typing.
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Post by MaybeNever on Dec 5, 2011 16:53:43 GMT -5
The SAT and GRE have a little statement at the beginning that has to be written in cursive for some reason, and on both tests I started late because I was still trying to remember how to make some of the letters. What a stupid restriction. Print is fine. Especially if it's in crayon or magic marker. For best results, the crayon should be held in the fist rather than the more common tripod grip.
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