Oh boy, where to start.....

[Dr. Waldorf X]

Well, let's just start with this.

Read it? No? Then do so, I'll wait.

Read it? Good!

Yeah, I know this kind of message is played out around here, but it has a few things going for it. First, its a fantastic read. Second, its something that needed to be said. Third, it provides the context for what's next.

Read at least a few of these, especially the first four.

Read it? Well, do so. It provides the rest of the context. I'll wait again.

Read it? Good!

As I'm reading through the first two responses, the level of hate rising along with my level of anger, I'm thinking out loud to myself what's wrong with their comments, from the cliche citation of Sodom and Gomorrah along with claims that the world is going to shit because of people preaching peace and love, the whole while claiming to be on the loving side, to the "hate is love" hypocrisy along with the good ol' persecution complex.

The hypocrisy and hate pissed me off. I could sit here and use this as a spring board on what's wrong with Christianity and why we should work to educate people out of their beliefs. I could sit here and type up the tired "the Bible teaches terrible morals" rant that we see every day on the main page. I could even use it and twist it to go on some anti-conservative rant. I could bring up citations from the main page and the comments section on this blog to support these rants.

I even considered submitting a few sections of these comments to the main page for open mocking, even though I know we've got a million of the same kind of comments. Hell, the amount of these comments are the main inspiration for my preferred type of submission being the liberal stupidity that puts things into perspective.

But that would make me the exact kind of asshole I would be decrying.

See, when I started reading the positive responses, I realized something. The hate spewed by these horrible people should not be met by hate. We're better than that. No one deserves to be hated. What they deserve is pity.

They should be pitied because we don't always know what makes these people tick. We don't know what makes them think their hate is love. What we do know is that they're convinced of their views and what some of these views are.

Can we truly hate someone if we don't know them?

I admit, I don't believe the world is a good place. Life is crap for a significant part of it and is a living hell for another significant part, all while the people who have it the best rarely lift a finger to help. But yet, despite all my cynicism, I believed it wasn't the way things needed to be.

I was raised to believe that everyone was entitled to their own happiness. What you do with your life is none of my business. Articles like this and stories like this do nothing but reinforce my belief and faith that humanity has the potential do do good and make the world a great place to live.

[Admiral Lithp]

Coddle someone for being a sociopathic asshole because it might hurt their feelings otherwise?

Sounds legit.

[Vene]

There is a difference in kind between being mean to people for some neutral aspect of them (gender, orientation, ethnicity, etc) versus for them doing something wrong. Saying bigoted and hateful things deserves scorn and it's not a form of hypocrisy.

[foolishwisdom]

You could try responding to them with logic and wisdom. But if all else fails, the last resort is to just bite your lip, call them dicks under your breath, and move on.

[Kali]

Wow. Just wow. The second one thinks we're supposed to judge others? Maybe s/he should read a Bible sometime. Do not judge, or you too will be judged.

[VirtualStranger]

I disagree. The appropriate response is not to pity them, but to laugh at them.

[Dr. Waldorf X]

Dec 9, 2011 10:44:18 GMT -5 Vene said:

There is a difference in kind between being mean to people for some neutral aspect of them (gender, orientation, ethnicity, etc) versus for them doing something wrong. Saying bigoted and hateful things deserves scorn and it's not a form of hypocrisy.

Perhaps I worded something wrong (it was about 3:30 AM while I was typing this), but the point I was getting at was not that saying hateful things aren't worth criticizing. The point I was trying to get at is that we don't know what makes people say hateful things, at least, not for sure, so its really not our place to judge. Instead, I said they're pitiful because, despite their claims otherwise, they don't know what love and tolerance are.

Dec 9, 2011 6:35:39 GMT -5 Admiral Lithp said:

Coddle someone for being a sociopathic asshole because it might hurt their feelings otherwise?

Sounds legit.

Part of my point is to show yourself as the bigger person instead of meeting their hate with your hate as that's not going to fix anything.

[Admiral Lithp]

1. The bigger man argument is nonsense. It's just rationalization. "I didn't just get walked all over, I was being the bigger man."
2. Even if that ridiculous aesop WAS true, proving that hating someone doesn't fix the problem doesn't prove that pitying them is more effective.
3. Fuck them. I don't care what their "reason" is, people are responsible for their own actions.
4. The author is talking about persecuting someone for being ugly or smelling funny. I don't know if he's comparing this to "the other side of the argument," but you are. And that implies, purposefully or not, that everyone's reasons are that stupid & shallow.

[Dr. Waldorf X]

Dec 9, 2011 22:14:36 GMT -5 Admiral Lithp said:

1. The bigger man argument is nonsense. It's just rationalization. "I didn't just get walked all over, I was being the bigger man."
2. Even if that ridiculous aesop WAS true, proving that hating someone doesn't fix the problem doesn't prove that pitying them is more effective.
3. Fuck them. I don't care what their "reason" is, people are responsible for their own actions.
4. The author is talking about persecuting someone for being ugly or smelling funny. I don't know if he's comparing this to "the other side of the argument," but you are. And that implies, purposefully or not, that everyone's reasons are that stupid & shallow.

So your idea is to fight a pointless battle instead? I'm simply saying to let hateful assholes be hateful assholes since we both know that arguing with them isn't going to work. Hell, just look at the article's responses. We have someone who literally believes that hate is love. That's not someone worth wasting your time arguing with.

[Vene]

Most the time you're not really arguing with the person you're arguing with, you're arguing with people reading the argument who are less invested in the result. You are also not going to get a result right away, it is a gradual process of whittling away at stupidity. At the absolute least, they're not longer in a little echo chamber of reinforcing views.

[Admiral Lithp]

Okay, see, that fits into my point #2. So you aren't going to engage these people because it's not effective. Great. So now you're...doing nothing? Not a whole lot more effective.

Also, you're all over the place here. What does that have to do with what your feelings regarding them are? Was this about being the bigger man, that they don't deserve to be hated, or doing what makes a difference?

[Dr. Waldorf X]

Dec 10, 2011 1:17:11 GMT -5 Admiral Lithp said:

Okay, see, that fits into my point #2. So you aren't going to engage these people because it's not effective. Great. So now you're...doing nothing? Not a whole lot more effective.

Also, you're all over the place here. What does that have to do with what your feelings regarding them are? Was this about being the bigger man, that they don't deserve to be hated, or doing what makes a difference?

How is it all over the place? All I'm saying is that I could be putting my energy elsewhere instead of arguing with a brick wall. What good does matching hate with hate do?

Dec 9, 2011 23:49:00 GMT -5 Vene said:

Most the time you're not really arguing with the person you're arguing with, you're arguing with people reading the argument who are less invested in the result. You are also not going to get a result right away, it is a gradual process of whittling away at stupidity. At the absolute least, they're not longer in a little echo chamber of reinforcing views.

Now that is a good point. Not one I agree with, but a good one all the same.

[Dragon Zachski]

Dec 9, 2011 23:49:00 GMT -5 Vene said:

Most the time you're not really arguing with the person you're arguing with, you're arguing with people reading the argument who are less invested in the result. You are also not going to get a result right away, it is a gradual process of whittling away at stupidity. At the absolute least, they're not longer in a little echo chamber of reinforcing views.

This.

An unchallenged lie will be taken for truth by many.

[Admiral Lithp]

And all I'm saying is that I have yet to see you propose anything more useful or appropriate, just shoot down other shit for not being useful or appropriate. What good does it do to pity someone who hates you? I've got rage & a profound desire to inflict pain on you on my side. You've got the ability to feel bad for me & spin sappy speeches. Who wants to take bets on how this is gonna turn out?

[Dr. Waldorf X]

Dec 10, 2011 1:49:35 GMT -5 Admiral Lithp said:

And all I'm saying is that I have yet to see you propose anything more useful or appropriate, just shoot down other shit for not being useful or appropriate. What good does it do to pity someone who hates you? I've got rage & a profound desire to inflict pain on you on my side. You've got the ability to feel bad for me & spin sappy speeches. Who wants to take bets on how this is gonna turn out?

Honestly, you're probably right. This whole thread was immediate thoughts typed out at 3:30 AM and a string of posts trying to justify these thoughts just as much to myself as it was to everyone else. In fact, all I've done is waste everyone's time. I don't know, maybe its my dislike of conflict and a desire to sound smarter on something I'm no expert on.

Yeah, I know, one hell of a 180, right? See this site has taught me several things, one of which is that the people we quote are assholes who have a tendency to hurt others with negligence and occasional actual malice.

God I must sound incredibly stupid right now.