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Post by Dragon Zachski on Dec 11, 2011 6:12:38 GMT -5
Not really, honestly. You have your own opinions. Sometimes, many times, we arrive to certain opinions that don't actually have solid reasons behind them. It happens.
Not to mention stepping back and realizing your opinion was flawed is a sign of intelligence and willingness to learn, not stupidity.
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Post by Old Viking on Dec 11, 2011 16:36:01 GMT -5
@ Dr. Waldorf X: I'm a Lithpian in this matter, and I'd like to say that it takes a pair to suggest that one might be incorrect.
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Post by Admiral Lithp on Dec 11, 2011 22:15:40 GMT -5
I've been away from this topic for a few days because I didn't know what to say, but now I think I've got something:
Dislike of conflict isn't a bad thing. It is true that at a certain point you have to stop & say, "Calm down, this isn't helping," if for no other reason than sheer practicality. But it is not a one-size-fits-all rule. I think too often people try to take a decent message & take it way too far. Anger & conflict are deeply ingrained parts of our personalities for a reason, yes they have their bad points, but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.
That's why I come down so hard on topics like these. Not because I think you or that blogger didn't have anything worth hearing, just that there was another point that was being missed.
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Post by Haseen on Dec 18, 2011 4:57:54 GMT -5
I wouldn't call the thread a "waste of time", because it gives food for thought.
As for my thoughts, I agree that you're not going to talk the fundieness out of a fundie, but it might benefit those on the fence. In addition, you should only make one really good response and be done with it. A back and forth can look too much like a "debate" that gives the fundie too much undeserved credibility.
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Post by Vene on Dec 18, 2011 11:03:13 GMT -5
I wouldn't call the thread a "waste of time", because it gives food for thought. As for my thoughts, I agree that you're not going to talk the fundieness out of a fundie, but it might benefit those on the fence. In addition, you should only make one really good response and be done with it. A back and forth can look too much like a "debate" that gives the fundie too much undeserved credibility. Nah, you need to overwhelm people with legitimate information. Just leaving a discussion makes it look like you don't have a response.
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Post by Tigger_the_Wing on Dec 28, 2011 18:59:54 GMT -5
I read the links in the OP and, at the end, was in tears. Thanks for that (I had read the first post linked already, but didn't know about the responses).
I'm with those who say 'keep on for the sake of the fence-sitters'.
I was a Roman Catholic who started reading sceptic sites to follow and learn the knock-down arguments against atheism that other Christians had (having been unable to formulate any myself).
Well, someone gave me a link to Pharyngula. As everyone here no doubt knows, the regular commenters, aka the Horde, don't let things slide and are scathing to accomodation; they eviscerate stupid arguments specifically for the benefit of lurkers. From Pharyngula, I got a link to this place. Having seen religious arguments torn apart convincingly and with evidence, I am now an atheist, (much to the relief of my offspring who have been atheist for most of their lives).
People, real, feeling, people get hurt all the time by the bigotry of the brain-washed religious; fear instilled in us by trusted adults when we are small makes us blind to the real harm we are doing in the name of pie-in-the-sky promises and threats. I feel ashamed, and deeply sorry for people I have hurt in my past, and wish I had been slapped across the face with reality a lot sooner.
I understand the need not to feel as bad as the bigots, but really you are doing them no favours either if you let their nastiness pass without fighting it. Even the most deeply religious of us can be reached, eventually (even my mother has turned atheist, in her seventies).
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