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Post by Vene on Dec 14, 2011 11:16:10 GMT -5
Gender identity is how somebody feels (with evidence of it being linked to the neurological body map) Gender roles are how society says each sex should act. Sex is the physical characteristics (often simplified to penis or vagina) Orientation is which sex/gender you wanna fuck. A gay transsexual wants to fuck somebody of the same gender. So this is somebody who wants to fuck dudes. Thing is, if there had never been gender roles, would the idea of gender have ever originated? If, hypothetically, society had never gotten the idea that men MUST be aggressive and women MUST be passive, or that the two sexes had any non-reproductive roles, would people have ever thought that gender existed seperately from sex? What I'm trying to figure out is which came first, gender or gender roles? Transsexuals claim that they are men/women trapped in women's/men's bodies, respectively, but how would they even know that if there were no such things as gender roles? That's what I wanna know. The fucking body map and measured differences in the brain. Transsexuals don't necessarily conform to the role of their target sex.
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Post by clockworkgirl21 on Dec 14, 2011 17:04:38 GMT -5
I can't remember the exact thread, but someone from RR shared a story about one of their relatives giving birth to a very premature baby and it died. It somehow related to abortion, and the FSTDT comments were so enraging. People saying "Cletus the fetus" and saying the fetus wasn't a person and worse shit. Verbally abusing a family member who was suffering from a terrible loss. Classy.
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Post by lexikon on Dec 14, 2011 17:52:50 GMT -5
Thing is, if there had never been gender roles, would the idea of gender have ever originated? If, hypothetically, society had never gotten the idea that men MUST be aggressive and women MUST be passive, or that the two sexes had any non-reproductive roles, would people have ever thought that gender existed seperately from sex? What I'm trying to figure out is which came first, gender or gender roles? Transsexuals claim that they are men/women trapped in women's/men's bodies, respectively, but how would they even know that if there were no such things as gender roles? That's what I wanna know. The fucking body map and measured differences in the brain. Transsexuals don't necessarily conform to the role of their target sex. To bad we can't MRI the brains of 140,000 year old skeletons. ;D Athough if our ancestors were egualtarian (and this probably wasn't very feasible due to pregnancy), our brains would have evolved to be similar. It's likely that these differences will become smaller since they're unnecesary in the future.
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Post by Vene on Dec 14, 2011 18:16:46 GMT -5
Athough if our ancestors were egualtarian (and this probably wasn't very feasible due to pregnancy), our brains would have evolved to be similar. It's likely that these differences will become smaller since they're unnecesary in the future. I have no idea what your thought process behind this is, but you have fun with it.
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Post by Shane for Wax on Dec 15, 2011 16:09:19 GMT -5
Lexicon/Brendan- Please to be learning anthropology and that the Western culture is not the only culture in the world. Thanks.
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Post by Mlle Antéchrist on Dec 15, 2011 17:57:26 GMT -5
Something that I find utterly repugnant: Often, when someone (particularly if it's a woman) acts as a rape apologist, numerous people will respond with something to the effect of "I hope (s)he gets raped!" It doesn't matter how much of an asshole someone is -- wishing rape upon them is still fucked up.
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Post by MaybeNever on Dec 15, 2011 18:20:10 GMT -5
Something that I find utterly repugnant: Often, when someone (particularly if it's a woman) acts as a rape apologist, numerous people will respond with something to the effect of "I hope (s)he gets raped!" It doesn't matter how much of an asshole someone is -- wishing rape upon them is still fucked up. Not to defend this kind of behavior, but I can't help but think of Lincoln's quote, "Whenever I hear anyone arguing for slavery, I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." The fucking body map and measured differences in the brain. Transsexuals don't necessarily conform to the role of their target sex. To bad we can't MRI the brains of 140,000 year old skeletons. ;D Athough if our ancestors were egualtarian (and this probably wasn't very feasible due to pregnancy), our brains would have evolved to be similar. It's likely that these differences will become smaller since they're unnecesary in the future. It isn't really a question of egalitarianism. All evidence suggests that gender exists as a function of sex and independent of culture. You can look at non-human animals for an example of that - they don't have a "culture" in anything like the human sense, yet they fall into roles based purely on their sex. Lions are a great example of this. Likewise, brain evolution - evolution in general - does not work that way.
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Post by lexikon on Dec 15, 2011 18:51:47 GMT -5
It isn't really a question of egalitarianism. All evidence suggests that gender exists as a function of sex and independent of culture. You can look at non-human animals for an example of that - they don't have a "culture" in anything like the human sense, yet they fall into roles based purely on their sex. Lions are a great example of this. Likewise, brain evolution - evolution in general - does not work that way. I guess they still have a structure where males try to produce the most babies, and have many females partners and mate 20 times a day, and kill the offspring of other lions to destroy their genes. I'm not sure if I would call what hominids did millions of years ago a "culture"
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Post by MaybeNever on Dec 15, 2011 18:58:05 GMT -5
We, of course referring to ancient humans, started a lot of the trappings of culture - specialized creation of tools, creation of art, tending to the dead, probably some incipient form of religion - quite early indeed. I want to say two million years ago or so, but I could be off. We have some anthropology people here who probably know better.
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Post by Yla on Dec 16, 2011 8:38:43 GMT -5
You can look at non-human animals for an example of that - they don't have a "culture" in anything like the human sense, Fun fact about culture - Different Orang-Utan populations in Indonesia use different tools.
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Post by Shane for Wax on Dec 16, 2011 11:19:27 GMT -5
Bonobos and chimps are rather adept at making tools like our early hominid ancestors were.
Different clans of apes have different ideas of how to go about things. I think this would be considered a culture. There have been some reports of burials I think but can't find the link.
And I wonder why I stick close to my idea of humans being arrogant by calling themselves wise wise.
Fun fact: even birds have been seen using tools.
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Dec 16, 2011 15:23:04 GMT -5
Bonobos and chimps are rather adept at making tools like our early hominid ancestors were. Different clans of apes have different ideas of how to go about things. I think this would be considered a culture. There have been some reports of burials I think but can't find the link. And I wonder why I stick close to my idea of humans being arrogant by calling themselves wise wise. Fun fact: even birds have been seen using tools. Corvids are my favorite birds for precisely that reason
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Post by N. De Plume on Dec 16, 2011 21:58:29 GMT -5
Corvids are my favorite birds for precisely that reason My favorite are the Japanese crows that seem to have figured out intersections, crosswalks, and stoplights, and use all three of those to get automobiles to crack really tough nuts for them.
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Dec 17, 2011 0:23:13 GMT -5
Corvids are my favorite birds for precisely that reason My favorite are the Japanese crows that seem to have figured out intersections, crosswalks, and stoplights, and use all three of those to get automobiles to crack really tough nuts for them. These animals study us. Maybe not scientifically, but still. There's something meta about studying an animal that is also studying us.
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Post by Mlle Antéchrist on Dec 17, 2011 19:45:28 GMT -5
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