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Post by nightangel1282 on Dec 14, 2011 3:06:52 GMT -5
Jean Cretien is concerned about the recent actions taken by Stephen Harper and the Conservative Party. He thinks it may just be a matter of time before they try banning SSM and abortions. Possibly even the death penalty! ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/canada-politics/jean-chr%C3%A9tien-suggests-stephen-harper-may-ban-abortion-200508122.htmlNow... I've admitted before that I barely understand politics... Is it possible that this could actually happen up here? Please tell me "no"... Because if this is possible, and if Harper makes the attempt, then you're talking to a woman who's going to take up arms and get ready to start a fucking revolution!
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Post by cestlefun17 on Dec 14, 2011 3:22:54 GMT -5
The article indicates that it's most likely just fear-mongering on behalf of the Liberal Party. It looks like they're getting desperate after their colossal defeat in the last elections where they've basically become a third party.
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Post by gyeonghwa on Dec 14, 2011 3:51:21 GMT -5
Me thinks the libs formed a coalition party, they could take down Harper. (Correct me if I'm wrong Canadians. I don't know much about how it works in the North).
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Post by Yla on Dec 14, 2011 5:39:19 GMT -5
The article is a bit short on giving evidence that they actually plan on doing this. So I tend to agree with cestlefun here.
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Post by brendanrizzo on Dec 14, 2011 8:54:26 GMT -5
It does seem like Chetien is just scaremongering here. Outside of Alberta, you Canadians are much more liberal than we Americans (much to my immense displeasure, as I have reiterated a thousand times...) so I'm sure if Harper tried anything, the people would not stand for it. Besides, I don't think a Prime Minister can rule by decree any more than a President can. Unless your Parliament is as unfit to govern as our Congress, I don't think there's anything to worry about.
It's sad that even people on our side are reduced to scaremongering in this political climate.
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Post by Mlle Antéchrist on Dec 14, 2011 13:34:10 GMT -5
While I'm not terribly fond of Harper and the Conservatives, I think Chretien is being rather dramatic. I don't believe the Conservatives would be stupid enough to try to go up against abortion and gay marriage, much less attempt to reinstate the death penalty (even here in Calgary, I rarely meet anyone who supports capital punishment); those are battles that they know they won't win. Me thinks the libs formed a coalition party, they could take down Harper. (Correct me if I'm wrong Canadians. I don't know much about how it works in the North). Well, the Conservatives have a majority right now, so a coalition wouldn't take them down. It would up the chance of Canada getting a liberal party in power during the next election, though. Outside of Alberta, you Canadians are much more liberal than we Americans Even Alberta is generally more liberal than most of the US.
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Post by Vene on Dec 14, 2011 13:38:55 GMT -5
While I'm not terribly fond of Harper and the Conservatives, I think Chretien is being rather dramatic. I don't believe the Conservatives would be stupid enough to try to go up against abortion and gay marriage, much less attempt to reinstate the death penalty (even here in Calgary, I rarely meet anyone who supposed capital punishment); those are battles that they know they won't win. Outside of Alberta, you Canadians are much more liberal than we Americans Even Alberta is generally more liberal than most of the US. I don't know much about Alberta, but I could see it being more liberal than the States as a whole, but more conservative than the more liberal states in the States.
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Post by Mlle Antéchrist on Dec 14, 2011 13:47:35 GMT -5
That's more or less what I meant by "most". Of course, I'm only going by the overall trends I've observed; this isn't something I've extensively researched, being that it's tough to gauge where a Canadian province would fall on the American political spectrum.
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Post by nightangel1282 on Dec 14, 2011 13:48:15 GMT -5
Ok, thanks for the reassurances. But with some of the crap the Conservatives have been pulling, it really didn't seem like a huge stretch to think that Harper would pull the shit Cretien is fearing he and the Cons might, so...
Yeah, lately the world's going to hell in a handbasket and Canada's going right down the drain with the the rest of it. And I just have to say that our method of electing leaders (since it was designed for only TWO fucking parties that were running) needs a SERIOUS makeover.
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Post by canadian mojo on Dec 14, 2011 15:10:43 GMT -5
Harper is an authoritarian dick, but this is just liberals trying to make him out to be the boogey man because it is all they've got left. The only one that I could see coming even close to a vote would be capital punishment and I think that is a remarkably unlikely possibility since it would be a knock-down drag-out fight that would go all the way to the supreme court only to be ruled unconstitutional. The conservatives like to act all tough on crime, but they really don't need that headache when the easy alternative is to tighten up sentencing and make true life sentences easier to hand down.
Gays just aren't a viable target to demonize in this country. They don't scare us, and we have far too much of a live and let live attitude to give a shit what they are doing in their bedrooms. All you do is look like a dick and the supreme court will knock down any little sand castle you plant your homophobic flag in. Not a good political move.
Abortion is even worse of a target since half the voters are female and their just aren't that many who think they should give up their rights. The other half of the voters have mothers, daughters, sisters, wives, and female friends, and not very many are inclined to see them have their rights taken away. There is very little support for abortion outside of some very small circles.
The best part is, that by making these an issue the liberals have ensured that Harper won't touch them because it is in his interest to prove them wrong and appear to be a man of the people and not an extremist since that is pretty much the only fear undecided Canadians have of him at the moment... and those are the votes he needs.
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Post by brendanrizzo on Dec 14, 2011 17:15:32 GMT -5
So Mojo, would this be a "Nice Job Breaking It, Hero" on the part of Chretien?
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Post by Wykked Wytch on Dec 14, 2011 22:14:30 GMT -5
Admittedly, I don't know much about Canadian politics, except that you have more "mainstream" parties than ours. Although I do know that Canada is pretty liberal compared to the U.S. Therefore, trying to destroy so many civil rights at once is bound to make the majority of the population flip out.
Please tell me you don't have fundies of Bachmann-esque magnitude in Canada. Please.
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Post by Mlle Antéchrist on Dec 15, 2011 5:56:53 GMT -5
Please tell me you don't have fundies of Bachmann-esque magnitude in Canada. Please. I'm certain we have a few nutters kicking around, but no mainstream politicians of Bachmann caliber.
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Post by brendanrizzo on Dec 15, 2011 9:45:58 GMT -5
Please tell me you don't have fundies of Bachmann-esque magnitude in Canada. Please. I'm certain we have a few nutters kicking around, but no mainstream politicians of Bachmann caliber. Aw, I kind of wish you had, because then I wouldn't feel so bad about living in America, the ONLY country in all the civilized world that has these nuts. Ezra Pound said this for completely the wrong reasons, but I do think that there's some truth in his assertion that the US is "a half-savage country out of date."
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Post by canadian mojo on Dec 15, 2011 13:48:47 GMT -5
So Mojo, would this be a "Nice Job Breaking It, Hero" on the part of Chretien? Chretien is a very savvy political animal so it's hard to say. We're a long way away from an election so it is not going to be remembered by the public -- and even if it is, he's a former politician -- but it might help to guide party strategists. Harper doesn't actually need to do any of these things, he just needs to lean towards them. Personally, I say forget this line of attack (for now at least) and focus on the bullshit around the F35 contract. Another good area of attack is Harper's attempts to curtail democracy and debate.
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