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Post by Old Viking on Dec 22, 2011 17:07:01 GMT -5
@ LHM: A guy on the next block has faith that he's Napoleon Bonaparte, but his French is terrible.
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Post by lighthorseman on Dec 22, 2011 17:43:08 GMT -5
@ LHM: A guy on the next block has faith that he's Napoleon Bonaparte, but his French is terrible. Probably didn't have time to learn it properly what with all those constant interuptions from the front.
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Post by lexikon on Dec 22, 2011 18:33:05 GMT -5
Also... why the obsession with trying to tie Celtic Pagan gods/goddesses to Christianity? It's clear a lot of the Christianity stuff comes from Egyptian beliefs. "In Osiris the Christian Egyptians found the prototype of Christ, and in the pictures and statues of Isis suckling her son Horus, they perceived the prototype of the Virgin Mary and her Child." "...the Copts of Egypt during the early Christian centuries were known for their massive production of Apocrypha and pseudepigrapha. This characteristic of the early Copts should not be surprising to us in light of the evidence of gnostic influence on the early Coptic Christian thought. The gnostics were literate people and well acquainted with ancient religions and mythology. As Christianity was spreading in Egypt, a group of these gnostic Christians apparently made an effort to tie old Egyptian myths to Christian beliefs." "In the theology and art of Gnosticism Horus and Christ could easily be blended.... Aeon/Horus was born of the Virgin Isis.... Clearly in the Gnosticism which fringed Christian orthodoxy Horus and Christ could merge." Um, no. www.tektonics.org/copycathub.htmlI came across this site trying to look for paralles between Egyptian/Greek gods and Jesus, and realized that they were barely any. And I read the Egyptian Myths. Isis was definitely NOT a virgin. I find better paralles between Jesus and heroes from Jewish Mythology, like Moses and Samson. Although Gnosticism was likely the precursor to Orthodox Christianity.
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Kali
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by Kali on Dec 22, 2011 20:48:16 GMT -5
I'm no expert, but I thought that while the original stories of Jesus were taken from Jewish mythology- the messiah, the sacrificial death, etc., many of the saints were taken from pagan gods and holidays, like St Brigid, Saturnalia/Christmas, Easter. So the parallels between Christian and pagan mythology would be more in the saints than in Jesus and the disciples.
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Post by Shane for Wax on Dec 22, 2011 20:55:37 GMT -5
Also... why the obsession with trying to tie Celtic Pagan gods/goddesses to Christianity? It's clear a lot of the Christianity stuff comes from Egyptian beliefs. "In Osiris the Christian Egyptians found the prototype of Christ, and in the pictures and statues of Isis suckling her son Horus, they perceived the prototype of the Virgin Mary and her Child." "...the Copts of Egypt during the early Christian centuries were known for their massive production of Apocrypha and pseudepigrapha. This characteristic of the early Copts should not be surprising to us in light of the evidence of gnostic influence on the early Coptic Christian thought. The gnostics were literate people and well acquainted with ancient religions and mythology. As Christianity was spreading in Egypt, a group of these gnostic Christians apparently made an effort to tie old Egyptian myths to Christian beliefs." "In the theology and art of Gnosticism Horus and Christ could easily be blended.... Aeon/Horus was born of the Virgin Isis.... Clearly in the Gnosticism which fringed Christian orthodoxy Horus and Christ could merge." Um, no. www.tektonics.org/copycathub.htmlI came across this site trying to look for paralles between Egyptian/Greek gods and Jesus, and realized that they were barely any. And I read the Egyptian Myths. Isis was definitely NOT a virgin. I find better paralles between Jesus and heroes from Jewish Mythology, like Moses and Samson. Although Gnosticism was likely the precursor to Orthodox Christianity. Ohhh one whole site. Oh and I can't take that site seriously with that layout. I'm going to need more to go on than one site like that. Considering a lot of things I've found say Isis was a virgin. Sorry, but the whole Jesus/God thing is based on Sun Gods, which Egypt has so there are definitely parallels where that is concerned.
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Post by lexikon on Dec 22, 2011 21:04:54 GMT -5
Um, no. www.tektonics.org/copycathub.htmlI came across this site trying to look for paralles between Egyptian/Greek gods and Jesus, and realized that they were barely any. And I read the Egyptian Myths. Isis was definitely NOT a virgin. I find better paralles between Jesus and heroes from Jewish Mythology, like Moses and Samson. Although Gnosticism was likely the precursor to Orthodox Christianity. Ohhh one whole site. Oh and I can't take that site seriously with that layout. Sorry, but the whole Jesus/God thing is based on Sun Gods, which Egypt has so there are definitely parallels where that is concerned. You want more? thedevineevidence.com/jesus_similarities.htmlchristianthinktank.com/copycat.htmlHave you studied theology, are you just making claims up? Because there's not enough evidence to say the Jesus story was a ripoff.
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Post by Shane for Wax on Dec 22, 2011 21:09:15 GMT -5
Why are you just focusing on one part of what I said? Even without bringing Jesus fucking Christ into it the Egyptian sun god mythology does play a big hand in Christianity. Which you're arguing very little is applied. Also, it doesn't count if you give me links that are also on the same website you gave. Your copycat link was taken from the first site you gave me. That doesn't make me confident you know what you're doing when it comes to giving sources. Just by using this as a stepping stone we get things like: hnn.us/articles/6641.html and www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/history/virginmary_1.shtml
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Post by lexikon on Dec 22, 2011 21:14:34 GMT -5
So two of these people know each other and done the same research. I don't see what the problem is.
I don't really get your argument about Egyptian sun mythology. I've heard of the afterlife judgement parallel (which is radically different than the one in Christianity). There are many mentions of Jesus being the light and wisdom, but that's also old testament stuff.
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Post by Shane for Wax on Dec 22, 2011 21:17:04 GMT -5
If you don't really get it then why argue it?
Also, as for two people knowing each other I don't think I have to tell you the problems with that when it comes to science.
Throughout history we get the sun god myths, of which Egyptian mythology is the king of. I don't see what's so difficult to understand about that.
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Post by lexikon on Dec 22, 2011 21:26:24 GMT -5
This isn't science, it's theology.
I wasn't arguing your point at first, just the connection between Jesus and Horus, as well as the other claims on this forum such as Jesus being similar to Dionysus and Mirthra, etc.
You haven't shown why Jesus is a Sun God, and why the story was inspired by Egypt if many other cultures have similar stories, unless you're arguing that Egyptian mythology inspired them all.
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Post by Shane for Wax on Dec 22, 2011 21:31:59 GMT -5
By George I think he's got it!
I fucking told you earlier the connection between Jesus and Horus and you tossed it to the side! And now you're telling me I didn't?
TRUE TO CAESAR. I am done with you.
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Kali
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by Kali on Dec 22, 2011 21:35:16 GMT -5
This isn't theology so much as history. And history is about facts, just like science. The gods people worshipped, the myths they created, are all connected. As for him being the sun god, well, light is and was an important part of Christian rituals. The belief that the sun's light was symbolic of God's favor is the reason behind the development of Gothic-style cathedrals.
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Post by lexikon on Dec 22, 2011 21:57:42 GMT -5
By George I think he's got it! I fucking told you earlier the connection between Jesus and Horus and you tossed it to the side! And now you're telling me I didn't? TRUE TO CAESAR. I am done with you. Well, images of Jesus and Mary weren't really depicted until the late middle ages, so first one's off the roof. Your first link is just a refutation of arguments for a Jesus-Horus connection presented by a quack. Did you even read it? Isis was not a virgin. Where is your source of Gnosticism merging Egyptian and Jewish Beliefs? And what does that have to do with sun-centered mythology?
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Post by Miles, The Slightly Off on Dec 22, 2011 22:06:47 GMT -5
I feel the need to make this point and then go back to lurking in obscurity, but...
It would have been impossible, if I remember correctly, for the celts to have inspired Christian mythology, as that whole business with the Celts would have happened after the business with Jesus.
Not to mention that for Celtic culture to have influenced the Bible, it would have had to have been written much closer to what is now Italy.
I apologize, if I am incorrect on this, however, I do feel it is a point that needs to be made, as this argument is getting rather silly.
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Dec 22, 2011 22:07:50 GMT -5
What does this have to do with anything? Shane never said that the Virgin Mary herself was inspired by Isis, but rather that the IMAGE of the Virgin Mary and Jesus was inspired by an IMAGE of Isis and her son.
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