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Post by Kit Walker on Dec 22, 2011 23:45:06 GMT -5
People will judge your children for how they adhere to the "rules", including fashion, and that's something you do have to teach them. And they will judge you the same way, and they will decide whether they trust you with their children based on that judgement.
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Post by lexikon on Dec 22, 2011 23:46:55 GMT -5
That's because genitals are icky and calling someone a cunt is just plain rude. We aren't discriminating against gender or anything else either.
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Post by Tenfold_Maquette on Dec 22, 2011 23:58:16 GMT -5
Personally, I don't give a toss how others judge me based on how I dress. Never have. Anyone who would isn't worth my time anyway.
But then again, I was the seven-year-old girl perched up a flag-pole in a massively blood-stained yellow prom dress two sizes too big, clinging with my bare feet and swearing at passerby. So idk, I might not be the best judge of things.
I still don't see what's the big deal about a particular arrangement of clothing on any given gender. You cut the inner seam out of shorts and you have a skirt; who cares what's what underneath?
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Post by foolishwisdom on Dec 23, 2011 0:54:47 GMT -5
Pet peeve: I don't get how people can say that certain clothing on one gender but not the other is unnatural, despite the fact that cloths themselves are unnatural. For crying out loud, it's just fabric woven together to for specific shapes, that's all clothing generally is. Unless you get some negative biological reaction* from wearing a dress or whatever, I think it's safe to say neither your body nor natures gives a damn to what you're covering your skin with.
*Allergic reactions to the fabric doesn't count.
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Post by lexikon on Dec 23, 2011 1:07:23 GMT -5
Well, not unnatural, just unaccepted in society, and we must uphold the status quo (if we feel like it).
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Post by foolishwisdom on Dec 23, 2011 1:13:52 GMT -5
Unnatural; Unacceptable (in society) Tomato; Tomäto
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Post by Miles, The Slightly Off on Dec 23, 2011 2:05:05 GMT -5
I believe we're missing the point here, we should be praising this woman for making the lives of her students better, no matter what we think of whether or not boys should wear dresses in public.
This is a heartwarming story. Something that really needs to happen more often, and the point of this entire thing is showing that tolerance of people who break the traditional norm of gender roles, if that makes sense.
After all, I think that having a teacher like this back when most of us were made fun of as kids for having an interest that wasn't explicitly feminine or masculine respectively would have been nice.
- True to Caesar.
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Post by lexikon on Dec 23, 2011 2:31:16 GMT -5
As far as I can tell Celeste doesn't think so. He thinks gender matters when it comes to simple clothing and would shame parents who let their daughter dress like a boy, like Alie.
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Post by Yla on Dec 23, 2011 3:28:35 GMT -5
cestlefun: Would you be okay with letting your son wear the dress at home at first? - all future possibilities kept open, but first gather experience?
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Post by nightangel1282 on Dec 23, 2011 5:12:46 GMT -5
I loved the article. I wish more teachers were like that...
In regards to the little debate...
When I was a little kid and first started kindergarten, my parents would ALWAYS put me in a dress, even though I hated the damn things (tomboy). I was a kid who would sit and play in the dirt, catch bugs, snakes, toads, etc and I was sent home from school almost every single day because I would sit in the dirt in my dress, and play. They would send me home because I was dirty. Finally, my parents gave up trying to dress me for school and just let me wear whatever I wanted. Yeah, I got teased because I wasn't wearing dresses or bright colors like the other girls in class (I like neutrals or dark colors), but I didn't give a crap. I figured that if they were going to judge me because of how I dressed, then they weren't the kinds of people I cared to be friends with anyway.
I still played in the dirt in the shirts and pants, but funily enough, the school never complained about it once I stopped wearing dresses.
...Which I don't get, but... whatever.
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Post by davedan on Dec 23, 2011 6:07:40 GMT -5
It's a shame Celeste has left the debate because I was wondering how he would feel if his 4 or 5 year old boy decided he was going to wear his Batman/superman/ ben 10 costume everywhere he went including preschool?
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Post by Shane for Wax on Dec 23, 2011 6:45:43 GMT -5
You know what's great about the age that the children in the story are mentioned being? Nobody really cares so long as they are wearing something to cover them. Hell, a lot of little kids go out in their front yards without shirts on, boys and girls alike.
Instilling gender norms on a young child is the best way to keep society from accepting queer folk. Just because you don't want to rock the boat is no reason to be so controlling over what your kid wears. Children learn things from their parents. If their parents constantly say 'no this is wrong. Timmy you have to wear pants' then they will have a higher chance of growing up to be queerphobic or at the very least baffled when they see other people pushing the boundaries of gender norms and perhaps feel they should hate that person because it isn't what they grew up with.
Then when they start questioning their own sexuality and gender identity they may end up dysphoric and self-hating because all they've learned growing up is that dresses are not a boy's thing to wear.
I don't know about you but when my nieces and nephew visit I am glad to see them experiment with clothing options. My little nephew even played with his mother's makeup a few times. I have given my nieces some of my old clothes which are made up of pants and t-shirts.
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Post by cestlefun17 on Dec 23, 2011 8:59:31 GMT -5
If he's playing dress-up he can dress up however he likes. However, at the dinner table it'll be proper dress.
Wearing costumes in public, except on Halloween, is not appropriate.
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Post by itachirumon on Dec 23, 2011 9:04:50 GMT -5
Because the dinner table is public and you might be judged for how you sit, eat, look, and behave there. COTILLION-MAAAAANNNNNNN, killin' thugs who use their salad forks to eat steaaaaaak. COTILLION-MAAAAAN, that slight slouch is not okayy!
Edit: After looking it up again I caught some fridge brilliance about that, a shiny dime to the people who catch the irony
Edit 2
Lemme ask you somethin' cesty - how about for regular play? Would you ban "costumes" when your son wanted to run around out in the front yard? (I say front because it's more "public"). Lemme put it this way... is it okay for him to tie a lil' cape around his neck, put on a mask and play Batman?
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Post by cestlefun17 on Dec 23, 2011 9:31:13 GMT -5
So now we're throwing table etiquette out the window too I suppose.
Our front yard is by no means "public." It's our front yard. The neighbors seeing my son play in a Spiderman costume in the yard is not embarrassing. Sending him to school dressed as Spiderman is, not to mention the school would probably have him sent home.
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