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Post by Wykked Wytch on Dec 29, 2011 20:22:40 GMT -5
There's a difference between freedom of speech and advocating (AND GIVING INSTRUCTIONS ON COMMITTING) outright child abuse. I don't care how much of a censor-whore this makes me, but I just can't bring myself to even in PRINCIPLE defend someone's 'right' to publish a how-to manual for torturing innocent kids for Jesus. As far as I'm concerned, no one has the right to write that crap and I'm not going to defend atrocious abusers just because their right to free speech by telling people to beat their kids for Jesus. It isn't even that I don't agree with it--people have a right to say shit I don't agree with so long as I have a right to call them on their bullshit. It's that what the Pearl's book advocates is outright WRONG. Full stop. I agree. Simply advocating child abuse, and then having a parent take that advice, is enough to be considered criminal.
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Post by rageaholic on Dec 29, 2011 20:27:30 GMT -5
I came to figure out why I hate this line. The usual "I turned out okay" - NO, NO, YOU FUCKING DIDN'T! YOU THINK HITTING CHILDREN is okay! You did NOT turn out okay yourself, you turned out fucked up in the goddamn head! Otherwise, you'd be as outraged as the REST of us are. Us SANE people. I agree, but that's kind of begging the question. However, it does seem like many of those defenders (like the stupid commentors from the article) end up coming across as assholes. I think the real issue is what the hell constitutes "okay"? I've heard one guy say that their kids hold good jobs and do good in school because they were spanked. However, the same guy thought it was perfectly normally for his brother to be brought to tears simply because his mother asked him to take out the trash. That's obviously not normal behavior, but this guy thought so (and thought his brother was a wimp for thinking their mother was abusive). Then there's the issue of what constitutes a "spanking"? When I was threatened with a spanking, it was just an open handed swat. There was only 1 time I remember when a spanking actually hurt. But this Pearl nutcase thinks beating kids with objects repeatidly, and making them get the instrument they will be hit with, is a "spanking". He makes an entire ritual out of it which has got to be psychologically damaging even if he doesn't cause physical harm to his kids. And of course there's how often kids are spanked, what for, and if kids are going to be living in fear of making a mistake. Stuff like that is never brought up in these discussions.
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Post by Wykked Wytch on Dec 29, 2011 20:29:45 GMT -5
Keep spanking in the dungeon, not the home!
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Post by lighthorseman on Dec 29, 2011 20:30:49 GMT -5
I really don't want to play devil's advocate on this, because the Pearl's disgust me, but as a parent, I can tell you one man's genuine, well intentioned discipline is another's abuse. I'm sure I've done things to my daughter some would consider abuse, and I've certainly seen other people disciplining their kids i ways I consider abusive. Tough to know where to draw the line, though I do think thev Pearls are way beyond it, where ever it is.
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Post by Wykked Wytch on Dec 29, 2011 20:43:44 GMT -5
My parents only spanked me once. I was their first child and I think they were trying it out because they heard it might be a good idea. However, they couldn't work up the strength to hit their own child, so they later apologized for scaring me and gave me ice cream. They never laid a hand on me or my brother again.
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Post by N. De Plume on Dec 29, 2011 20:54:23 GMT -5
Hate the Pearls, despise their philosophy, but, you know freedom of speech and all... Even freedom of speech has its limits. Incitement to violence and abuse is one of them. Then its not freedom, is it? When you use your freedom to unjustly deprive another of their freedom, you have crossed a line. As they say: The right to swing my fist ends where the other person’s nose begins.
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Dec 29, 2011 21:00:57 GMT -5
Lighthorseman, I don't think you quite understand the concept that one person's rights end where another person's rights begin.
Your rights to free speech ends where others' rights to basic well-being begin.
You can go "Oh, well it's not really FREE, is it", but the fact of the matter is, this is the boundary set for it, and no amount of pedantic whining will change that fact. If you have a problem with it, take it up with government. Not us.
In order for free speech to truly be free, it must not be allowed to infringe on others' freedoms. Otherwise, it is tyranny.
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Post by Tenfold_Maquette on Dec 29, 2011 21:04:51 GMT -5
I got hit as a child and up through my teen/young adult years. As a kid, my mother would make up for lapses in her parenting by berating and screaming at me for hours, all the while threatening what would happen once my dad got home. I would spend hours crying and scared, only to have my dad come home and yell at me as the first thing he did when he walked in the door, followed by dragging me over to a chair and spanking me as hard as he could. There was a period in my life where this happened every damned day. When I got older, it escalated into slaps, shoves, and dragging me through the house by my hair.
I've had anxiety issues and depression my whole life. I can't be in the same room as people who are arguing because raised voices send me into panic-attack mode. I'm borderline schizophrenic and I'm guessing my parents' habits of changing the rules and punishing me whether I was "good" or not probably had something to do with it. I don't do well in confrontations because I'm afraid that I'll lose it and come back to my senses having done something horrible.
I can't wrap my brain around hitting a child, and I have no sympathy for those who resort to doing so.
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Post by Thejebusfire on Dec 29, 2011 21:44:06 GMT -5
My father used to spank me when I was little. But then he found out that giving me a "time-out" by sitting forcing me to watch CSPAN.
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Post by RavynousHunter on Dec 29, 2011 22:05:47 GMT -5
My parents spanked me when I got outta line...it did nothing but make me want to rip their arms off and beat them to death with em. They had the fucking gall to wonder why I never told them anything about my life for...well, most of my life. I wonder.
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Kali
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by Kali on Dec 29, 2011 22:52:16 GMT -5
My parents spanked me when I was a kid. Stopped around 8 or 9. I do think they were over-eager to use a switch instead of trying to find a better way; in their defense they didn't know any other way. And I did turn out relatively okay, I have a few issues related to their treatment of me but it's less the spanking and more the being ignored most of my life that is the cause. So like has been said, it's not spanking per se, it's how it's handled and the overall treatment. However, I'd never lay a hand on my child for any reason short of stopping him/her running into the road, reaching for a hot stove, etc.
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Post by Dragon Zachski on Dec 29, 2011 23:38:03 GMT -5
I've been spanked a couple of times in my life. Each time it was a single swat to a fully clothed behind with a hand.
The one time I actually remember being spanked, it was an inappropriate measure. (I was wearing my sunday clothes, forgot about that fact, and had climbed a tree with a very low branch and was sitting in it)
I was reassured about this fact by my other parent. And I was never spanked after that.
I only support it as an emergency reaction to a kid doing something life-threatening. Like walking out into the road when there's cars coming. It also deserves a proper explanation. Beyond that, it's abuse. Even if it isn't painful, the psychological repercussions are.
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Post by Meshakhad on Dec 30, 2011 0:33:09 GMT -5
I think my mom said that once, when I was little, she did spank me. I don't remember why. My parents' preferred method of discipline was limiting our computer time. It was very effective.
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Post by Shane for Wax on Dec 30, 2011 1:22:49 GMT -5
My parents would take my game consoles away and put it in a box I couldn't use until a few days later.
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Post by anti-nonsense on Dec 30, 2011 2:33:14 GMT -5
my mom spanked me a few times when I was little, but only a few times, the standard punishment for most things at that time was being made to sit at the bottom of the stairs between the upper and main floors, once I got a little older and became addicted to the Internet cutting off the LAN became the standard punishment.
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