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Post by peanutfan on Jun 9, 2009 15:24:32 GMT -5
www.dominic-deegan.com/Awesome webcomic in general, but I thought today's would be particularly amusing for the board-folk. Enjoy!
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Post by The_L on Jun 9, 2009 16:24:21 GMT -5
I'd probably be attracted to the young man too. And the poor, confused orc girl.
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Post by Dr. Waldorf X on Jun 9, 2009 19:13:40 GMT -5
You're joking, right? The art is painful (and hasn't improved since day 1), the characters are non-nonsensical (Orc girl is suicidal because of tiny fangs that can be EASILY removed) and the story goes from mediocre (the majority of it) to sickeningly bad (orc rape.) Really the only way Dominic Deegan is funny is by so bad its good standards.
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Post by ironbite on Jun 9, 2009 23:51:21 GMT -5
Get smited
Ironbite-though I'm trying to figure out how that's relevent to today.
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Post by askold on Jun 10, 2009 6:10:19 GMT -5
Get smited Ironbite-though I'm trying to figure out how that's relevent to today. Well basically the orc girl is from a fundie tribe, few strips ago when her tribe's leader had ordered the orc guy to kill her she was willing to die because that was what the elder said and the elder is never wrong... And when the orc guy refused to kill her because she hadn't done anything wrong she tried to kill herself... Repeatedly. She did stop trying to kill herself after the scarfaced human saved her life and now she's attracted to her. ... Yeah I've been reading Dominic Deegan for few years already and I'm still a fan.
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Post by The_L on Jun 10, 2009 10:30:12 GMT -5
You're joking, right? The art is painful (and hasn't improved since day 1), the characters are non-nonsensical (Orc girl is suicidal because of tiny fangs that can be EASILY removed) and the story goes from mediocre (the majority of it) to sickeningly bad (orc rape.) Really the only way Dominic Deegan is funny is by so bad its good standards. The art style doesn't appear to be THAT bad (although, having seen Gonterman's abominations, I may be biased), I hadn't read far enough back to know that idiocy, etc. However, that one strip, taken by itself, was funny and cute. Sometimes there is a nugget of humor buried in a sea of mediocrity.
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Post by schizophonic on Jun 10, 2009 10:52:19 GMT -5
I don't get it. *reads explanation*
I still don't get it.
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Post by ironbite on Jun 10, 2009 13:53:06 GMT -5
Yeah me neither. DD is an ok webcomic but...relevant to this board?
Ironbite-and this strip? Poor choice dude.
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Post by peanutfan on Jun 10, 2009 16:02:09 GMT -5
I was specifically referring to the fact that many fundie leaders accuse women of being temptresses and subject to more sinful thoughts than men. Sorry, I thought that would come across in the orc-woman's inner monologue.
And lordx, I find the art to be enjoyable, the storylines well-thought-out and able to handle delicate and painful issues with respect for all sides as well as providing humor and action, and Luna was never suicidal just because of her fangs...she was suicidal because her family deliberately drove her to that point, up to and including her hateful bitch of a mother deliberately insulting her in her will. VERY few people would managed to spend the first 18 years of their lives being told they're ugly and worthless without their mental state becoming similarly fragile, especially if kept deliberately isolated from the rest of the world as Luna was.
You're entitled to your own opinions regarding the art and storylines, but the comment about Luna's character development earns you a smite.
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Post by Dr. Waldorf X on Jun 11, 2009 1:10:40 GMT -5
Its not the most atrocious thing I've seen, but it still isn't a good comic. First, the art. Notice the face. Notice how every character in profile has a snout. The only other places you will see this are 1) in cheap animation and 2) in comics that are as lazily drawn as this one. The comic medium is a visual medium, yes, but it is not a medium in which anything moves. It might have been a lack of skill that caused the snouts in the early days, but 7 years have passed and the art has never improved. At all. There are a few possibilities for this, but most likely it is either 1) the artist is extremely lazy, usually because he's come to ride on his success and knows many of his fans will think shit looks good if he said that he made it, 2) the artist thinks his art is perfect and can't be improved in any way, so he stops trying, usually if he gets near universal praise for his mediocre art and ignores any criticism, even the most well meaning constructive criticism. However, art will not make or break a comic. A personal favorite of mine, Awkward Zombie art on the same level as Dominic Deegan, but the writing and constant efforts to improve are what makes it enjoyable. Now, the storyline. Most story arcs can basically boil down to the author saying "If I don't agree with it, its wrong" and the villains are evil for the sake of being evil. There's nothing wrong with this except that the comic is trying to be political and talk about real world issues and viewpoints. In other words, if your villains are going to be evil for evil's sake, at least make sure that you aren't trying to have them represent real world problems, Dio damn it! Not to mention Orc Rape. Seriously, that is a story arc that trivializes and justifies RAPE. Now the character development: Dominic himself is what many in the writing world like to call a Mary Sue (or rather, due to the male nature of the character, Marty Stu). He is a self-insertion of the author (this has been pulled off right before, but in this case, as with the VAST majority of cases, not so much) that is so self confident and perfect that there is no way the evil for evil's sake villains will ever defeat him! Seriously, Dominic has no real flaws that he hasn't taken on temporarily to only remove said temporary flaws for artificial depth. And Orc Girl's past is NOT development. Development happens over time. A character's generic, cliche' and downright BORING history is NOT development. This is not opinion, this is literary fact. If you enjoy it, good for you, not my problem. However, just because you enjoy it doesn't mean that it is a "great" comic to everyone (in fact, everyone that isn't a fan generally either hasn't heard of it or despises it.) In other words, you're entitled to your opinion, just don't tell me I'm wrong for disagreeing. Oh, and about that smiting, don't you think its odd that you're smiting me for having a different opinion on a character's "development" while talking about how I'm entitled to my opinion? You're basically telling me about how wrong I am for having a different opinion, sort of like a certain group of people we here at FSTDT have a tendency to make fun of.
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Post by peanutfan on Jun 11, 2009 7:48:14 GMT -5
I didn't smite you for having a different opinion from mine. I smited you for making an objectively wrong statement (Luna being suicidal over her fangs) as fact.
I concede that I used the wrong literary term in discussing Luna's past, though; I should have referred to it as her character history rather than development. The character development has been how she has been able to recover from her abuse and develop into a stronger person. Apologies there and thanks for pointing out my mistake.
As for the rape storyline you keep referring to...honestly, I don't see where you draw your conclusion about it. The message I took away (just my interpretation) is that sometimes, there are no good solutions. If the orc boy didn't claim Melna, she would have been killed; if he didn't physically express his claim over her in a manner that his tribe would accept, she would have been killed anyway. The fact that it's presented as such a painful issue for all involved, including the orc boy himself, is used to highlight that orc society is a divided one, with fiercely conservative and reactionary tribes and factions trying to force adherence to older, more outdated and mysoginistic attitudes, while more progressive ones try to move forward culturally. The orc boy didn't want to do what he did, but he felt trapped by his tribe's laws and customs and couldn't see a way out. Doing the wrong thing for the right reasons doesn't change the fact that it's wrong.
As for the art...maybe I watch too much anime, but the "snout-like" appearance you speak of is quite common in it as well, and the artist has never made any secret of the fact that his style is heavily influenced by anime. As for your complaint about it not improving...have you ever thought that maybe the artist has been doing his best and may have just hit the ceiling of what his talent and ability offers even before he started drawing DD? All arguments about talent vs. practice aside, not everyone has the potential to be a Michaelangelo.
Having read through the comic from the beginning a couple of times, I don't see anything that says to me "this is wrong because I say so." The characters might have bad or mistaken reasons for how they act, but they still HAVE reasons, which is a big step up from a lot of fantasy (LOTR, I'm looking at you). The only example of a villain being evil simply for the sake of it that I've seen in DD is the Infernalist. All other villains presented are shown to have actual motivation, usually involving improving the world (by their standards), but also involving good ideals twisted into horrible actions and tainted by prejudicial beliefs (Siegfried's a big example of that) or simply taking out their frustration on the world at large. A lot of them come off as melodramatic and Bondy, but I think that's a deliberate choice the artist makes...I know their dialogue often adds to the humor of a situation for me.
As for Dominic being a Harry Stu...I can see where you're coming from, but as I know very little about the author himself, I generally consider it irrelevant. Maybe I'm not as literarily (sp?) sophisticated, but I consider DD one of the better examples I've seen; most such characters would win without ever having to put in much effort, whereas Dominic has to study and fight and bleed for his victories. Even his Second Sight doesn't provide much advantage, since most of his visions appear without any context to explain them. I disagree about his flaws being artificial and temporary (I consider a lost leg pretty permanent), but that's largely a difference of opinion.
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Post by tygerarmy on Jun 11, 2009 18:33:46 GMT -5
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Post by Dr. Waldorf X on Jun 11, 2009 18:39:14 GMT -5
As for the rape storyline you keep referring to...honestly, I don't see where you draw your conclusion about it. The message I took away (just my interpretation) is that sometimes, there are no good solutions. If the orc boy didn't claim Melna, she would have been killed; if he didn't physically express his claim over her in a manner that his tribe would accept, she would have been killed anyway. The fact that it's presented as such a painful issue for all involved, including the orc boy himself, is used to highlight that orc society is a divided one, with fiercely conservative and reactionary tribes and factions trying to force adherence to older, more outdated and mysoginistic attitudes, while more progressive ones try to move forward culturally. The orc boy didn't want to do what he did, but he felt trapped by his tribe's laws and customs and couldn't see a way out. Doing the wrong thing for the right reasons doesn't change the fact that it's wrong. There are FAR better ways of doing that than jumping straight to rape. I personally find that story arc to be down right sickening. I'll give him this much, at least he actually draws his work as opposed to narcissistic lazy fuckwits like Tim B^Uckley of Ctrl+Atl+Del. Not saying everyone has the potential to be a legendary artist, but considering the simplicity of the art style, he could easily draw a mouth and a nose instead of a snout. The snouts are most likely drawn out of laziness. And how could he NOT improve if he is actually trying? I believe that there is ALWAYS room for improvement, even if only marginal improvement is possible. Terraciano makes no obvious attempt to experiment with different perspectives, faces or even going without the snouts. If he simply experimented a little, he would improve simply by becoming more versatile. If I could pull out examples, I would, but seeing as the only thing I remember of much of anything of this comic are Orc Rape and how bland it is, plus the fact that I don't feel like wading through what I think is crap, I've really got no defense here. Yeah, he's not the worst example out there (I'm looking at you random fanfic "original" character #3464), but he's still not a good character. He's probably as deep as a Dragon Ball Z character, temporarily weaker than the bad guy, tries REALLY hard, defeats villain, rinse, repeat. However, the lost leg would be a good example of a flaw, except that it doesn't effect him in the end. He still comes out on top every single time without ever compromising his morals and beliefs.
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Post by schizophonic on Jun 12, 2009 12:44:43 GMT -5
However, art will not make or break a comic. A personal favorite of mine, Awkward Zombie art on the same level as Dominic Deegan, but the writing and constant efforts to improve are what makes it enjoyable. I just wanted to say thanks for pointing that out to me. I'd never read it before. Aside from the comments (ZOMG IM DUMB WHY IS THAT NOT FUNNY I DONT KNOW), the strip is usually pretty damn good.
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Post by Dr. Waldorf X on Jun 12, 2009 23:13:47 GMT -5
However, art will not make or break a comic. A personal favorite of mine, Awkward Zombie art on the same level as Dominic Deegan, but the writing and constant efforts to improve are what makes it enjoyable. I just wanted to say thanks for pointing that out to me. I'd never read it before. Aside from the comments (ZOMG IM DUMB WHY IS THAT NOT FUNNY I DONT KNOW), the strip is usually pretty damn good. Katie hates her work. Its as simple as that. I find her self depreciating comments humorous because its such a normal thing for artists who are constantly trying to improve to hate their own work.
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