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Post by schizophonic on Mar 9, 2009 11:36:29 GMT -5
When I was a fundie I myself bought into a lot of sexist bullshit. None of it was nearly as extreme as in the article in the OP, but it was still sexist and still wrong. But sexism (against both genders, really, not just women) was espoused by the people I was supposed to agree with. Even though I knew I was an intelligent, capable woman, smarter than most guys my age I'd met, I bought into the lie that most women were emotional wrecks (which I'm generally not; I tend to be far more analytical than most people) and they shouldn't be in charge of anything big. They could have jobs and not be slaves to their husbands, but not be president either, and it was still better for a woman to be a slave to her husband anyway. I'm kind of amazed as how much of a feminist streak runs in my family, despite the heavy religious component. Almost all of my aunts (4 of 5) graduated from college, and two of them were in tech fields. Considering we're talking folks born in the 40s and 50s in small community Maine, that's quite amazing to me. I have one aunt who went into Marine Biology and another who now has something to do with software design, which she learned going back to school after like 20 years. My grandmother, though she spent her life as a homemaker, vehemently objects to the notion that all women should be or can only be homemakers. Yet otherwise, my family is religious and conservative. Well, except my parents, who were the hippie type. So nobody in my family holds the belief that a woman should be subservient or inferior--we wouldn't dare. But it seems such an odd contradiction with the rest of my family's beliefs--my family's homophobia certainly didn't help me in terms of gender identity issues, mind, but at least there's one less layer....
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Post by schizophonic on Mar 9, 2009 11:40:02 GMT -5
The thing is for me that theoretically I do understand this, but when faced with it in real life, the feminist in me just has to rebel. Edit: What I find really weird though are the women like Martha Peace (in the article) who choose this kind of a life for themselves. People who have not been born into fundamentalism but choose to do this anyway. I know it happens and I'm sure the psychology behind it is very, very interesting but it still boggles my mind (which admittedly, isn't all that hard). No, I understand this. I can't stand it myself, and it ups my dander as well.
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Post by the sandman on Mar 9, 2009 12:04:29 GMT -5
Kathryn Joyce* wrote an article at Mother Jones about a group that seeks to promote female subjugation and "traditional bilical marriage. Check it out, it's pretty disturbing: The Purpose-Driven Wife | Mother JonesThe accompanying illustration is pretty good, too: *shudders* Discuss this and other anti-feminist Christian groups/movements, misogyny in religion, etc. Sanya, in the future, if you wish to start a thread, please begin the conversation yourself. What you have done here is essentially say "Here's a topic, now I want you guys to talk about it." Contribute your ideas with the OP, please.
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Post by canadian mojo on Mar 9, 2009 12:27:35 GMT -5
Behind every great man there is a great woman...
rolling her eyes. ;D
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Post by schizophonic on Mar 9, 2009 13:34:31 GMT -5
Behind every great man there is a great woman... rolling her eyes. ;D Every time I hear that saying (Not the bit you added, but the original version), I think of that Tracy Bonham song... Behind every good woman there's a trail of men Shame shame for the rooster, high five for the hen
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Rubyfruit
New Member
Just your friendly neighborhood bisexual Agnostic
Posts: 33
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Post by Rubyfruit on Mar 9, 2009 13:51:42 GMT -5
All I can say is that when I was deep into the brand of Christianity that I got out of, this stuff starts relatively young. Like, by the time one's old enough to comprehend words, it starts. For me, I got it drilled into my head from the time I was six years of age that I, as a woman, was meant to be the equivalent of a slightly more sentient pet. Either that or a child who just happened to be of legal age.
It's one of those things I can rant about forever. In the end, if one chooses to live like that, I can't condemn their choices, but for the love of goldfish, that doesn't mean that all women everywhere have to live like that, you know?
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Post by Death on Mar 9, 2009 15:21:59 GMT -5
There's nothing wrong with doing things for each other. It's the attitude that counts.
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Post by captainhooker on Mar 9, 2009 15:32:34 GMT -5
There's nothing wrong with doing things for each other. It's the attitude that counts. I think this an important distinction. My wife doesn't work - or rather I should say she isn't gainfully employed. She stays home, takes care of our child, and keeps house. This was not a request on my part. I would much rather her have a job, doubling our income, but she wanted this, so I did what I could to make it happen. Does she do all the things associated with being a housewife? yes Does she take orders from me? Hell no Does she enjoy what she does? absolutely When our daughter is in school, she'll most likely go back to work, and we'll resume sharing duties the way we did before, but for now, this is what she wants.
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Post by Caitshidhe on Mar 9, 2009 15:33:42 GMT -5
There's a difference between living that way because you've made the decision to live that way, and living that way because you've been brainwashed your entire life to think a certain way. If somebody makes that conscious choice, knowing that other options exist, then I respect their right to make that decision. But if a girl is force-fed the same sexist, women-are-servants-to-men rhetoric their entire lives and live that life as a result of it, then I can't really call that a 'choice' because they had no idea that other options for life in general existed.
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Post by Death on Mar 9, 2009 15:38:56 GMT -5
There's a difference between living that way because you've made the decision to live that way, and living that way because you've been brainwashed your entire life to think a certain way. If somebody makes that conscious choice, knowing that other options exist, then I respect their right to make that decision. But if a girl is force-fed the same sexist, women-are-servants-to-men rhetoric their entire lives and live that life as a result of it, then I can't really call that a 'choice' because they had no idea that other options for life in general existed. It's very difficult to keep people ignorant, they have a way of finding things out. Just going to school, or even a home education, teaches that there are other roles for women. Simple observation counts too. It's how that world is viewed, not the world that people live in, that influences decisions.
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Post by schizophonic on Mar 9, 2009 16:08:37 GMT -5
There's a difference between living that way because you've made the decision to live that way, and living that way because you've been brainwashed your entire life to think a certain way. If somebody makes that conscious choice, knowing that other options exist, then I respect their right to make that decision. But if a girl is force-fed the same sexist, women-are-servants-to-men rhetoric their entire lives and live that life as a result of it, then I can't really call that a 'choice' because they had no idea that other options for life in general existed. By comparison, when the slaves were freed, a lot of blacks didn't know what to do with freedom. People who were opposed to slavery effectively said "See? They don't even want to be free!" A lot of people try justifying women in Burqas by a similar statement that they like it. Which is nice, but since they're indoctrinated at a young age and know no alternative, it's hard to say that's actually true. I mean, it's an easy justification, but it's hardly played out in the past.
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Post by antichrist on Mar 9, 2009 17:44:06 GMT -5
Funny how these women with writing careers who spend all their time on the talk circuit are telling other women to get back in the kitchen.
I tried to be a good fundie wife, but shithead was more interested in getting it for free from prostitutes (and possibly gay men who struck out at the bar) than he was from me.
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Post by clockworkgirl21 on Mar 9, 2009 18:39:39 GMT -5
Heh. If these women want to live that way, whatever.
What gets me is the double standard. If a man forced his wife to work, he'd be looked down on for it. If a woman forced her husband to work, she'd be praised for "not taking his crap."
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Post by Paradox on Mar 9, 2009 19:50:23 GMT -5
Funny how these women with writing careers who spend all their time on the talk circuit are telling other women to get back in the kitchen. The religious right doesn't seem to comprehend the concept of irony.
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Post by schizophonic on Mar 9, 2009 19:59:08 GMT -5
Heh. If these women want to live that way, whatever. What gets me is the double standard. If a man forced his wife to work, he'd be looked down on for it. If a woman forced her husband to work, she'd be praised for "not taking his crap." Not to mention, a guy who stays at home is looked down upon, even if he's looking after the kiddies and doing all those "house wife" things.
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