Lady Renae I think you might want to try to restrain your compulsion for enforced order just a bit. This site has existed for a long time without rules, protocols, guidelines, moderator 'enforced' suggestions, and any other type of order. (besides common sense)
First, I don't have a "compulsion for enforced order", so please don't be inflammatory. I realize that for all intents and purposes there have been no formal rules or even moderately active governance in FSTDT before now, and personally I'm all for that. I
am an anarchist after all. Something I've come to understand, however, is there is a large difference between anarchy and chaos. What has existed and grown on the forums and the mainpage for some time now is not a playful anarchy but a festering chaos that has threatened to irreparably corrupt FSTDT from its original purpose into the grotesque stereotype of the haughty vengeful militant atheist. It was so bad that most forumites didn't even bother with the mainpage anymore, and those who did constantly complained. Several once active members even left the site altogether, unable to stand the mess that even the forums had turned into. There were entire threads dedicated to expressing the disappointment and revulsion being experienced by those who once loved and enjoyed coming to FSTDT on a regular basis. Granted, there were small groups of members actively trying to change that, but against the vast number of people who either had stopped caring or were just fine with the way things were thank you very much, and without certain vital tools unavailable to them at the time, their ability to make any sort of real progress was almost non-existent.
Thankfully we have the opportunity to begin anew, and unless we wish to see that belligerent swamp of immaturity, callousness, and indifference reign once again over what is meant to be a place of friendly discourse and brutally honest entertainment, then we must gather ourselves together and actually
do something about it. I'm not saying we need to break out the high boots and uniforms, but we do need to realize that what we want isn't going to come into being simply by wishing it so. No matter how hard you want something to happen, if you don't take an active role in pursuing it and instead allow yourself to believe that others will somehow magically take care of it for you, there is very little chance whatsoever that what you want will ever come to pass. Furthermore, if upon realizing that the eventuality you so desired has a very low probability of occurring you decide that it obviously just wasn't supposed to be that way to begin with and whatever place you find yourself instead is really for the better, all you're doing is deluding yourself into a false sense of comfort in an effort to convince yourself that your inaction was just in spite of the fact that you know you could have done better.
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that exactly the sort of belief system and thought process we sit around mocking on a regular basis? If so, why would we want to emulate it?
That would be Distind, only he didn't die first, and he didn't 'make me God' so much as agree with and approve of my ideas and efforts to improve the site enough to offer me modship, which I accepted. Understand that I didn't ask for this, and Distind wasn't shopping for new help when I came along. I simply did what I thought was right in an effort to help a community I cared about, and I never let myself get discouraged by the magnitude of what I meant to accomplish. This is what Distind appreciated, and it was something he felt he could use more of on his team of moderators. He made the offer. I accepted. Now I'm doing the job I was recruited to do.
Additionally, I'm not telling people what to vote on. If you'll notice, I started this thread with a blank set of guidelines and definitions and asked the members of the forum to tell me what they thought these things ought to be. The fact is, most of us already have a fair idea of what is and is not reasonable and desired in a good quote. It's just never been written down before. All I am wanting to do is collect the criteria we already use into one place and present it to the general public that they might know by what standards we will be judging them. Yes, there are some things which have been declared entirely off limits that had not been previously, but those were not my decisions. I simply abide by them, and it would be a worse crime than what you accuse me of committing if I were not to inform the rest of the forum about these new rules that I was made responsible for enforcing. Think of it this way, would you rather have set limitations that you knew you were expected to obey and hated, or would you rather find yourself being punished seemingly at random for infractions against a myriad of rules you didn't even know existed?
Personally, I'd rather not have to wind my way through a glass maze in the desert, but you are fully allowed to feel however you like about it.
Tradition for the sake of tradition gains nothing and gilds the cage. While it is true that no one person should be entirely responsible for the content of the mainpage, it is equally true that the previous system had utterly failed to function in the manner expected of it. When something stops working, the sane and rational individual creates change, and at the moment that means the creation of higher standards and stricter enforcement of the ones already in place. This is neither a concept nor a direction I am simply conjuring out of the air. You, yourself, have admitted to the fact that the problems I seek to address began long before my arrival, and the systems in place to deal with them continually failed to so do.
When I accepted my modship and set out to begin exercising my new capabilities, Distind had no set list of problems and responsibilities for me to resolve and perform. Rather, he gave me the green light for projects he had already approved of BEFORE the site move. These things were already in motion, and if you don't believe me you can check the old forums and ask around. I assure you this is nothing new. To tell you the truth, I've been advised to put nearly all of the new ideas I've come up with since the site move on hold until after these issues are taken care of in a way that at least hopes if not promises to hold and continue to provide benefit in the long view.
How about you trust his?
Anything and everything that happens on FSTDT and has a chance to alter, amend, or supplant current and future policy is thoroughly investigated by Distind and his team of moderators, whom he chose to be in such positions of authority. If such a measure were deemed inappropriate, harmful, or even questionable, one of them would step in and at the very least advise those involved to reconsider. You'll note this has not happened here. You'll also note that the person responsible for these actions of which you so vehemently disapprove has been placed in a position to enact and enforce them. This happened
after these threads were created, not before, which indicates to those who are unaware of the conversations Distind and I had been having when I started this process both in the past and on the new forums that the attitude held by the powers that be towards my actions here is not only one of support but of wholehearted approval. Without that approval, these threads would already be dead in the water.
I am not attempting to undermine the system already in place, nor am I trying to replace it. I like the new PubAd. I think it is a hell of a lot better than what we used to have, and Distind has in mind a few tweaks and modifications that will produce even better results than we have now. The other side of it is that our expectations of quality are always relative to what we are given, and if you're fed rotting pears on a regular basis you'll jump for joy at the sight of a half-wilted carrot because it's only
half wilted and isn't covered in gnats. I don't know about you, but I'd rather be subsisting on hearty stew and celebrating the appearance of cake.
We won't get this, however, if we don't take the effort to give off the sort of appearance and build the sort of reputation that attracts the right submitters to supply us with the quotes we want and informs the more unsavory types that not only are they not welcome but to even attempt to pass their tripe through our system would be a complete waste of their time. We're on our way to that reality, but we aren't there yet.
Plus I won't pretend to believe even for the slightest moment that everyone who goes into submissions is even going to give the guidelines a passing glance. I'm not restricting access in any way, nor am I blocking anyone from submitting what they choose. All I am doing is creating a source of information that can then be made available for submitters should they choose to review it. I'm not forcing them to read it, I
can't force them to follow it, and even if I could I wouldn't because it defeats the purpose of having them in the first place. This is not an attempt at dictatorship and should not be taken as such.
And you're fully entitled to feel that way. Nobody said the poll was mandatory either. Though, if you'll notice, one of the options was to not put these things up at all. Since that is what you seem to be in favor of... but like I said, it isn't required and never was.
To me it would be much more in the spirit of the site if there was just a link on the submittal page to a page called "Suggestions for making good submittals" or something like that. There we can try to pass on our experience about what makes a good fundie quote and what doesn't. Add suggestions about editing down long quotes, warn about editorilizing quotes, etc, etc...
Note that my suggestion does not try to define and limit what may be submitted, does not preach or set rules, it merely relates experience. I think that maybe people would appreciate that rather than resent it. Yes it is basically kinda the same thing, but it is the approach to the reader that matters.
This IS what I am doing, and I'm leaving the wording of the document to be presented entirely up to you forum members. The few hard rules are ones given to me by Distind. Everything else is entirely up to forum members, and nothing is final until a general consensus is reached. This is ENTIRELY an input-driven process with an absolute minimum of interference from higher authority. That which you ask for I already provide. That you didn't see it that way may be due in part to my occasionally flaccid communication skills, but the fact remains that everything you have just said is identical to what I am trying to accomplish.
We are not enemies, you and I. We fight for the same team on the same side of the same battle. Please recognize that I mean you no injustice and in truth aim to engender your cause to victory. If we cannot work together at a thing on which we agree, how are we to enlist the support of our detractors and succeed where they would have us fail?