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Post by dasfuchs on Apr 1, 2009 21:38:44 GMT -5
You move because it is the law to obay the orders of a police officer. If it violates your rights that is something for the courts to decide. If a police order violates your rights, that order is illegal and can be happily ignored without breaking the law. If the cops try to enforce that non-law, exercise your right of self-defense and then charge them with assault, at which point the court will decide to award you a couple of thousand dollars. Cops don't get to arrest whoever they want whenever they want, only when they have reasonable suspicion of the commission of a crime. If they arrest at any other time they are committing a grave crime. The police are not the law: the law is the law. And do I really have to explain why America's media is far from liberal? Yeah, cause god knows they arrested me last week for walking down the sidewalk. You make it sound like they arrest people for just standing on their porches and beat them to death if they refuse when you say it should be just find to tell them to shove it. You are the type they get angry with and possibly abuse because of that attitude. When a cop tells you to do something, you do it, short of something that threatens your life and/or safety. You really need to stop watching Cops and youtube vids as a standard
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Post by wmdkitty on Apr 10, 2009 18:14:20 GMT -5
Tell that to the police force. In fact, tell that to taser, who have repeatedly sued coroners who find that their product causes death. In their opinion, it's just a harmless toy that you can use to torture hippies without leaving a mark. Citation Needed. You haven't had much interaction with law-enforcement, have you? They will say/do *anything* to get a search/arrest, including LYING, planting evidence, and using physical force. No cop will admit it, and they *all* defend each other -- the "Blue Wall of Silence" is still in existence.
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Post by wmdkitty on Apr 10, 2009 18:29:23 GMT -5
The 'abusive, overbearing, hysterical if questioned' police officer is an internet meme, sure it happens but it is a one out of hundreds of thousands thing. m52nickerson is correct in saying that you should as the law in this country stands simply comply with the officers orders. If you do not comply you can be charged and or restrained/arrested, argueing with a police officer is futile and at the worst it is possibly suicidal. I was stopped and forcibly searched by the local pigs just for being with the "wrong" people. If their orders violate my rights (First and Fourth amendments -- Freedom of assembly, unreasonable search & seizure), do I still have to follow them? According to you, the answer would be "yes", and you would be wrong. I see the piggies violating people's rights every fucking day. It is NOT a "one out of hundreds of thousands thing."
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Post by m52nickerson on Apr 10, 2009 22:56:51 GMT -5
You haven't had much interaction with law-enforcement, have you? They will say/do *anything* to get a search/arrest, including LYING, planting evidence, and using physical force. No cop will admit it, and they *all* defend each other -- the "Blue Wall of Silence" is still in existence. I have had plenty of interaction with the police. I went through some of it earlier in that thread. I find your statements wholly untrue.
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Post by m52nickerson on Apr 10, 2009 22:59:13 GMT -5
I was stopped and forcibly searched by the local pigs just for being with the "wrong" people. If their orders violate my rights (First and Fourth amendments -- Freedom of assembly, unreasonable search & seizure), do I still have to follow them? According to you, the answer would be "yes", and you would be wrong. I see the piggies violating people's rights every fucking day. It is NOT a "one out of hundreds of thousands thing." No, again you would be wrong, yes you do have to follow them by law. Did you get arrested?
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Post by dasfuchs on Apr 11, 2009 5:23:01 GMT -5
The 'abusive, overbearing, hysterical if questioned' police officer is an internet meme, sure it happens but it is a one out of hundreds of thousands thing. m52nickerson is correct in saying that you should as the law in this country stands simply comply with the officers orders. If you do not comply you can be charged and or restrained/arrested, argueing with a police officer is futile and at the worst it is possibly suicidal. I was stopped and forcibly searched by the local pigs just for being with the "wrong" people. If their orders violate my rights (First and Fourth amendments -- Freedom of assembly, unreasonable search & seizure), do I still have to follow them? According to you, the answer would be "yes", and you would be wrong. I see the piggies violating people's rights every fucking day. It is NOT a "one out of hundreds of thousands thing." Yes you do, you don't have to like it though and can take it to court. That's why the abusing cops do it, everyone's all piss and vinegar until it's over. When i had issues with the cops in one town i complied and tried to be respectful, after a while they stopped bugging me even if i was in a group they wanted to search. I was barred from going to my hometown for a while after being pulled over once, the cops thought i had drugs in my car (per rumor i guess, I never touched anything) and I allowed them to search my car. they tore the interior apart. i took the police to court over it, the police department had to pay to repair the damages. I got a new dashboard out of the deal from that along with the rest of the interrior
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Post by wmdkitty on Apr 11, 2009 14:51:03 GMT -5
I was stopped and forcibly searched by the local pigs just for being with the "wrong" people. If their orders violate my rights (First and Fourth amendments -- Freedom of assembly, unreasonable search & seizure), do I still have to follow them? According to you, the answer would be "yes", and you would be wrong. I see the piggies violating people's rights every fucking day. It is NOT a "one out of hundreds of thousands thing." No, again you would be wrong, yes you do have to follow them by law. Did you get arrested? No. They were just being dicks. But they still violated MY RIGHTS, and I see them doing shit like this on a daily basis. You have NO CLUE.
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Post by m52nickerson on Apr 11, 2009 16:51:43 GMT -5
Give me a clue then. Explain in detail what happened to you. How did they violate your rights?
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Post by dasfuchs on Apr 12, 2009 3:41:32 GMT -5
No, again you would be wrong, yes you do have to follow them by law. Did you get arrested? No. They were just being dicks. But they still violated MY RIGHTS, and I see them doing shit like this on a daily basis. You have NO CLUE. Take them to court, bring it to the court's attention, take it to the news, make people aware of it. By sitting on your ass and just bitching about it you do nothing
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13rats
Junior Member
Posts: 91
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Post by 13rats on May 4, 2009 1:50:48 GMT -5
That's their JOB. What they get PAID to do. When people need help, they come. To serve and protect. Now, the problem is that doesn't give them the right to abuse their authority, but most of them do. Just as in any other profession, police officers should not automatically be put on a pedestal just because of their job title. It doesn't make them good people. I have a female co-worker named Jan, she is 48 and has 3 kids. Her oldest child is 23. His name is Danny and he has Autism, Downs Syndrome, and OCD. After the other, slightly younger kids were born, Jan's husband, a police officer, DUMPED her for another woman, and left her to raise the 3 kids by herself. Another co-worker of mine, a woman in her 50s named Nancy, has a son that is a police officer. He just dumped his wife for another woman, took the kids with him, and won't let Nancy see her grandkids because she doesn't like what he did. And are you honestly denying that the majority of police officers pursued the career because they have a fetish for expressing authority over people who can't question them? Police officers lie in court constantly, whenever it protects themselves, their departments, or helps the state's case. Seriously, just look at the Los Angeles Police Department for an obvious example. This is the post that annoyed me the most out of the whole thread, although most posts were wrong in some way. What you're doing is generalizing, and that's never a good thing. It's just as bad as racism or sexism or anything else, just as bad as if you were to say, "Oh yeah, I met this black guy and he punched me. Then I met another black guy and he took my money. I guess most black people in the world are just complete jerks who hate everybody." You're basing an extremely broad statement on two personal experiences. Give a huge amount of examples of police officers lying in court and I'll believe they do it a lot. And to everybody who said that there are a ton of horrible stories about police, there are way more "good" stories in which things went smoothly. What would you rather put in the news, a story of a cop being shot and his partner using a taser on the shooter, or a story of a guy being caught, put in cuffs, and driven to jail with no incident? There's going to be reports on most bad stories, and the good ones will be left untouched. Some cops do dumb things that shouldn't be done, some cops act perfectly fine and do exactly what they're supposed to. I haven't had any experiences, so I don't have personal bias to take into account, fortunately. Edit: You haven't had much interaction with law-enforcement, have you? They will say/do *anything* to get a search/arrest, including LYING, planting evidence, and using physical force. No cop will admit it, and they *all* defend each other -- the "Blue Wall of Silence" is still in existence. Once again, quit the generalizing. Taking your other post into account, I see you've had horrible experiences with cops, but even if every single one you've ever contacted acted horribly, by no means should you assume every one in existence is the same.
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Post by schizophonic on May 4, 2009 21:23:17 GMT -5
There's going to be reports on most bad stories, and the good ones will be left untouched. Bush tried that reasoning, while there was an outbreak of atrocities being committed in Iraq. While his administration was actively downplaying and denying such atrocities. the problem is, while people are saying "of course you'll only see the bad stuff," there are human pyramids and waterboard confessions. One of the big reasons behind hate crime legislation is that local authorities are often unwilling to investigate minorities getting assaulted or killed. There's a lot of turning of heads out there, and this is a real problem that is actually worse than the shit you see on the news because it doesn't get attention. Police abuse is often buried by other cops and even stonewalled by the organisation itself. What's that saying? That the only thing necessary for evil to win is if good men do nothing? Well, the "Good Cops" tend to remain silent when bad things happen, so it really looks like nothing more than silent approval. There's simply too much abuse going down fo the defense that the bad stories will be covered and the good ones will be untouched.
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Post by m52nickerson on May 5, 2009 12:08:33 GMT -5
There's simply too much abuse going down fo the defense that the bad stories will be covered and the good ones will be untouched. How is that? With all the arrests made each day we only hear anything about ones were people claim, or there is, abuse. That does not excuse those cases of abuse, but it does show that there is not an epidemic of police abuse.
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Post by schizophonic on May 5, 2009 12:45:05 GMT -5
That's a very simplified interpretation....
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Post by antichrist on May 5, 2009 13:27:11 GMT -5
There's simply too much abuse going down fo the defense that the bad stories will be covered and the good ones will be untouched. How is that? With all the arrests made each day we only hear anything about ones were people claim, or there is, abuse. That does not excuse those cases of abuse, but it does show that there is not an epidemic of police abuse. It's not that there's an epidemic of abuse that bothers me, it's the fact that the abusive officers are not punished in any way, in fact they're protected by their union and the higher ups in the department. It's gotten so bad, that the Province ran a political cartoon that read "RCMP Officer tells the truth, officials in Ottawa say punishment will be swift". Also, with everything coming out (they tasered a 60 year old man over a parking violation in Kamloops) the RCMP officials are tightening the ranks rather than dealing with "rogue officers". I know that this is a Canadian issue, but there have been similar things in the US. Didn't the New Orleans cops become so corrupt that people were being told not to stop in a desolate place for an officer? I'm sure there are other examples of entire forces becoming this bad.
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Post by m52nickerson on May 5, 2009 13:48:59 GMT -5
It's not that there's an epidemic of abuse that bothers me, it's the fact that the abusive officers are not punished in any way, in fact they're protected by their union and the higher ups in the department. It's gotten so bad, that the Province ran a political cartoon that read "RCMP Officer tells the truth, officials in Ottawa say punishment will be swift". Also, with everything coming out (they tasered a 60 year old man over a parking violation in Kamloops) the RCMP officials are tightening the ranks rather than dealing with "rogue officers". I know that this is a Canadian issue, but there have been similar things in the US. Didn't the New Orleans cops become so corrupt that people were being told not to stop in a desolate place for an officer? I'm sure there are other examples of entire forces becoming this bad. I'm not going to argue with you there. I do think that Police unions and other Police do protect officers that have stepped over the line in some cases.
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