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Post by antichrist on May 5, 2009 13:49:35 GMT -5
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Post by schizophonic on May 5, 2009 14:14:43 GMT -5
"in some cases."
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Post by m52nickerson on May 5, 2009 14:33:57 GMT -5
Yes, in some cases, I don't see most police departments protecting individuals that obviously abused someone. Of course sometimes an officer needs that protection when he or she is being sued by someone who was not abused, but feels that way.
Take for example the Nake Wizard that was posted not long ago. A few people watched and called that abuse. It was not. The police tried to talk the guy in to putting his clothing on, then when they finally decided to arrest the guy he resisted. They at first tried to overpower him and when they could not get the cuffs on, then they tazed him. He still would not comply and he got tazed again. At any point he could have put his hands behind his back.
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Post by antichrist on May 5, 2009 16:06:32 GMT -5
See, the only thing I disagreed with in the Naked Wizard is the second Tase. I know he didn't go down on the first, but there is a direct corellation between deaths from Tasers and the number of times the person is hit.
I'm actually amazed he was still fighting after the first shot, that may be proof that he was on drugs, or that that particular police department is using Tasers on a light setting (do they have different settings?).
Here's my idea of what the rules around Tasers should be. Like most of my ideas it's right in the middle, so neither side is particularly happy.
1. Try to talk to the person. In the Dziekanski case, I think airport security should of gotten a translator in there before they called the RCMP. I'd be pissed off too if I was stuck in an airport for 10 hours.
2. Warn that you are going to Tase the person. Of course in the Dziekanski case this would not of helped. Although maybe if they had pulled the weapon before they nailed him, he might of stopped.
3. Aim for somewhere that's not in the chest. Aim for stomach, kidneys, or hips (although pants make that tough).
4. One shot, if that doesn't work, then move on to pepper spray or something else.
As for police departments that protect abusers, this is why people hate them. The RCMP is basically condoning this behavior by protecting the officers from prosecution. I understand that almost anyone who resists arrest will scream police brutality, but some of the cases are just so far off the spectrum, I can't understand how anyone could support the officer.
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Post by schizophonic on May 5, 2009 20:05:05 GMT -5
Yes, in some cases, I don't see most police departments protecting individuals that obviously abused someone. SF2. But I digress. The "I don't see it" approach is very, very poor logic, and realistically untrue. Also, in the case of Tasers, they are more and more being used as a first line before other alternatives are considered. I haven't touched the Naked Wizard threa, so I can't even comment there.
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Post by schizophonic on May 5, 2009 20:19:38 GMT -5
As for police departments that protect abusers, this is why people hate them. The RCMP is basically condoning this behavior by protecting the officers from prosecution. I understand that almost anyone who resists arrest will scream police brutality, but some of the cases are just so far off the spectrum, I can't understand how anyone could support the officer. Because any time you're in a brotherhood, admitting that one of you is wrong is not only a betrayal, but it casts despersion upon whether or not the rest of you can be wrong as well.
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Post by m52nickerson on May 5, 2009 20:21:53 GMT -5
See, the only thing I disagreed with in the Naked Wizard is the second Tase. I know he didn't go down on the first, but there is a direct corellation between deaths from Tasers and the number of times the person is hit. I realize that, but what are the police to do at that point? As far as I know there is no settings. Tasers really don't have a lasting effect, once the power stops you can move again. The problem with that is that fact that Dziekanski was tearing up the place at the time. If he was a bit claimer I would agree with you. Most police forces do, unless they need to stop someone now because he is about to hurt someone. I don't know if that matters since the electricity travels through your whole body. I don't know why but some police forces carry tasers instead of pepper spray. I can see how one try may be the best, the question is what would be next? In the past it was strikes to certain areas with a baton. Nor can I. It goes back to that mentality of "keep it in the Department" I think that is dead wrong.
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Post by m52nickerson on May 5, 2009 20:27:42 GMT -5
SF2. But I digress. The "I don't see it" approach is very, very poor logic, and realistically untrue. Also, in the case of Tasers, they are more and more being used as a first line before other alternatives are considered. I haven't touched the Naked Wizard threa, so I can't even comment there. Untrue, really? Of the obvious abuse cases we have seen over the last few years how many of those officers still have their jobs? Yes, some department use the taser fist, the thinking is to protect the officers. I don't think that should be a mandate in every situation, but I don't think an officer needs to get in a wresting match every time someone resists arrest, especially if the officer is alone.
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Post by antichrist on May 6, 2009 1:30:53 GMT -5
I realize that, but what are the police to do at that point? That's where spray or batons come in unfortunately. Yeah well, a smoker stuck in a non-smoking building for 10 hours. Why the airport doesn't have a telephone that you can dial a person in your own language (we're the capital of North American call centers). The airport should of handled it long before the police got involved. Studies done on dogs seems to show that a chest hit sends the first jolt straight into the heart. Hitting elsewhere seems to buffer the initial surge The taser is not the perfect tool, sometimes it isn't going to work, and you need a plan B. If that is spray, or batons, so be it. We've been focusing on the Dziekanski incident, but there have been a lot of other issues. Drinking and driving, shooting a person in the prison in the back of the head, rapes. Northern BC has become an area where the cops are the criminals. I don't know if Ottawa has decided that that's where to dump their trouble makers, but it's insane. Racism is another issue that has been coming to the forefront lately. If you go back to that link I provided earlier and click around, the stories get horrifying. Then there's issues like the Calgary police and they're "back the blue" bumper stickers. Rumour has it that they're a get out of tickets free. I know my step mother brags about only getting warnings.
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Post by m52nickerson on May 6, 2009 6:59:40 GMT -5
That's where spray or batons come in unfortunately. Which is what the taser was to replace. The police just need something new. I agree that the airport personel should have handled it far before the police ever had to be called. I can see that, I just never saw or heard of those stuidies. I say the police should aim for the ass. ;D Agreed. I've seen alot of those before. I know corruption can get very bad. I just don't think that is the norm. Well they need to pay for their police balls right! ;D
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D Laurier
Full Member
Paying for cable (or satalite) TV, is like hiring sombody to projectile poop all over your brain
Posts: 196
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Post by D Laurier on May 22, 2009 7:36:39 GMT -5
I have learned from painfull and terrifying experience that the only good pig, is a dead pig. I have been violated , desecrated, abominated, slandered, and tortured by pigs. I have been terrorized and brutalized by pigs. Between their violence, and their lies, pigs enjoy total imunity from consequence. Its past time to take this to the barricades. The only good pig is a dead pig
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Post by m52nickerson on May 22, 2009 7:45:13 GMT -5
Very nice.....you are advocating that police be killed.
Lawlessness will be so much fun!
While poetic, I would ask how exactly the police did all those things to you?
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Post by Haseen on Jun 8, 2009 17:31:02 GMT -5
Cops should have to have a camera while doing their jobs. Like a little spy camera in their badge or something. If a cop was accused of wrongdoing, you'd have the evidence right there. Not only would it help prosecute the bad cops, it would protect the honest cops as well.
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Post by booley on Jun 16, 2009 1:23:35 GMT -5
Considering the number of authoritarian sadists who become cops and soldiers, I am going to go with this being a bad idea.
Especially since like the taser, this will probably give people who use it the illusion it is non-lethal when it probably is just less lethal then a gun. Which means cops will be using it on situations that don't require force.
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Post by keresm on Jul 5, 2009 14:24:15 GMT -5
No matter what a police officer tries to arrest you for, legal or illegal you do not have the right to resist. I was fifteen when a police officer came up to me, in my own yard, casually watching someone get pulled over. He told me to get moving. I told him I lived here. His response was to throw me against the fence and tell me I had a smart mouth. When he 'accidentally' grabbed my breast, I shoved his hand away. His response was to dislocate my shoulder. The other cops, the ones that were standing right there watching it happen, somehow all managed to see me 'fall down when Officer Raymond grabbed her arm, it was an accident'. Officer Raymond was a dick. Oh well, people are dicks, it happens, bound to be some dicks who manage to get a badge. My ire is directed at the other officers. The ones who stood by while a fifteen year old girl got assaulted in her own front yard and lied about it.
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