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Post by DeadpanDoubter on Nov 4, 2009 22:31:54 GMT -5
Uh. Yeah. Not sure why I never thought about it before, but looking at some StormFront threads, particularly their fiction section, made me start wondering. After a few searches I've found that some Viking metal bands are, indeed, white supremacists hiding behind Norse mythology.
I feel so stupid for not noticing this before now, so can anyone more experienced with music (that is, anyone at all) tell me whether all Viking inspired music seems to stem from white supremacy?
Additionally, someone posted in an article on the topic that these lyrics, "Ashes to ashes and dust to dust/In Odin's name carry on we must/And for the fallen those so brave/The fight goes on until the grave" are white supremacist lyrics; I don't see the WSness in those lyrics, so can you point it out to me?
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Post by Admiral Lithp on Nov 4, 2009 22:43:15 GMT -5
The nazis sort of ripped off the idea of racial supremecy from the Norse, so they aren't necessarily "white supremecist," but they can be cnstrued as such.
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Post by trike on Nov 4, 2009 23:21:08 GMT -5
In my class on paganism one of the issues we discussed was some instances of various people attempting to disguise their racism behind Norse mythology or affiliation with other flavors of Northern European pre-Christian religions.
There is some racism to be found, but a lot of it seems to be of the "only white people join ergo suspicious" over hyped political correctness.
I have no idea about viking metal in particular though. I am amusing here, of course, that Viking metal may have connections with Odinism, although I could very well be totally wrong.
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Post by malendras on Nov 5, 2009 0:49:11 GMT -5
Most Viking metal isn't racist. Some of it is, but those bands are fairly rare. Amon Amarth are avowedly non-racist, Ensiferum and any band on the '08 Paganfest tour are as well (besides Ensiferum being from Finland, singing about Finnish folklore and not coming close to the Germanic white supremacist stuff). I also don't see the WSness in those lyrics either, I think it's an overreaction like trike said.
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Post by mistermuncher on Nov 5, 2009 3:50:06 GMT -5
"Viking metal may have connections with Onanism"
I feeex!
There's definitely a few bands in the genre (and how fucking ludicrous is it that it's actually a "genre", in any case?) happy to flirt with the imagery, and accept the cash, though. Whilst they can't be held responsible for their fans or anything, a few more actually openly saying the broad equivalent of "Nazi Punks, Fuck Off" would be nice.
To be totally fair, though, it's not limited to this style. Shit, even the like of Morrissey and Joy Division had these sort of wingnuts clinging onto their tunes and gigs. The BNP/NF were happily attempting to recast Dido's "White Flag" (of all the fucking musical wallpaper in all the world) as a White Supremacist/Anti-immigration anthem (Mind you, on their website, they sell a CD of "Great British Anthems" or suchlike, containing such delights as "The Foggy Dew", so actually listening to anything beyond the chorus seems beyond them).
TL;DR: There's a larger element of "Not part of the Solution/Part of the Problem going on next to actual WS. Not unique to this, though.
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Ivixor B
Junior Member
Zombie Ritual
Posts: 52
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Post by Ivixor B on Nov 5, 2009 18:01:14 GMT -5
For the most part, it isn't death metal bands espousing white power views and the like. It's mostly National Socialist Black Metal (NSBM) bands like Graveland or Nokturnal Mortum. Some folk metal bands often get called Nazi-sympathizers for using the old Nordic/Germanic runes, which the Nazis co-opted.
EDIT: I just remembered something. A lot of "Viking metal" is heavily inspired by Bathory's pagan period, especially Hammerheart. One of the songs on Hammerheart, "From Father to Son" has a specific verse that makes me think that this is where it started:
Promise me my son to always Cherish what is home to you What is the truth and to Defend all of your race
This might have influenced white nationalist sentiments in pagan black metal, but I'm not sure.
SECOND EDIT: "Home of Once Brave", also from Hammerheart, has some vaguely nationalistic themes concerning the land (Scandinavia) belonging to the vocalist/songwriter's people (Scandinavians), and that the land was taken from them (this theme also appears in "One Rode to Asa Bay", concerning the conversion of pagan Scandinavia to Christianity).
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Post by katz on Nov 5, 2009 20:35:13 GMT -5
Yeah, having had a friend who was a huge fan of non-English metal, I know that there's more bands than you'd think hiding racism behind their lyrics, especially the German ones because most people don't know what they're really saying.
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Post by xaria on Nov 6, 2009 12:46:40 GMT -5
theres quite a few racist black metal bands of all stripes. its a great pity
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Post by peanutfan on Nov 6, 2009 13:33:09 GMT -5
Slightly off-topic, but funny...
This reminds me of a story I heard while involved in the pagan community, though it's probably just an urban legend.
A chapter of the KKK learned that an Asatru (Norse pagan) circle was having a celebration in their area. Thinking they'd be able to get together and have a good old neo-nazi time, they got kitted up in their sheets and headed for the bonfire...only to be met by a thicket of spears, daggers, swords and a few hammers. The Asatru then refused to allow the KKK to leave until they handed over all the neo-nazi paraphenalia they had with them to be added to the bonfire.
Yeah. "Official" Asatru teachings are really fuzzy when it comes to tribalism and mixing races, but the cool ones take no shit from people trying to commandeer their symbols to spread hate.
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Post by The_L on Nov 6, 2009 16:15:20 GMT -5
There is some racism to be found, but a lot of it seems to be of the "only white people join ergo suspicious" over hyped political correctness. That alternately amuses and annoys me. Most Heathens are trying to get in touch with the gods of their ancestors. And what kind of people are most likely to have Germanic or Scandinavian ancestors? WHITE PEOPLE, DUH! No knowledge or opinion of Viking metal, sorry.
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Post by RavynousHunter on Nov 6, 2009 17:04:40 GMT -5
Yeah, having had a friend who was a huge fan of non-English metal, I know that there's more bands than you'd think hiding racism behind their lyrics, especially the German ones because most people don't know what they're really saying. Yeah, the supremacist fuckheads in German music do nothing more than give the whole of German music a bad rap. Shit, I can't even count the number of times people have referred to Rammstein as Nazi or supremacist.
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Post by renaissanceblonde on Nov 6, 2009 17:27:45 GMT -5
*swears vociferously*
As a Celtic/Norse pagan, this hits close to home. There are Asatru groups (the Odinic Rite's really bad for this) who are explicitly white supremacist, which pisses me off because I'm more Wiccatru, and I don't give a rat's ass about the colour of someone's skin.
Because of the association with racism, I haven't spent time investigating Norse-inspired music. As somebody who's also descended from Celtic and Germanic elements, I shouldn't have to feel this way. But racist fuckwits ruin it for everyone.
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Post by gadfly on Nov 6, 2009 21:30:52 GMT -5
I feel so stupid for not noticing this before now, so can anyone more experienced with music (that is, anyone at all) tell me whether all Viking inspired music seems to stem from white supremacy? No. No, it does not. Granted, you'd have to research the bands to figure out if they have white supremacist connections/leanings. Encyclopedia Metallicum is a pretty good resource for this.
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Post by trike on Nov 6, 2009 21:55:01 GMT -5
There is some racism to be found, but a lot of it seems to be of the "only white people join ergo suspicious" over hyped political correctness. That alternately amuses and annoys me. Most Heathens are trying to get in touch with the gods of their ancestors. And what kind of people are most likely to have Germanic or Scandinavian ancestors? WHITE PEOPLE, DUH! No knowledge or opinion of Viking metal, sorry. Most pagan guest lecturers were also pretty clear that whilst they are often getting in touch with their pre-Christian roots, they also seek to get into touch with the spirits and deities of the places where they live...which leads me to conclude that most groups would be fairly open to a black or Asian pagan showing interest. And I almost wrote "Onanism" instead of "Odinism" in my previous post
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Post by szaleniec on Nov 7, 2009 8:34:20 GMT -5
Yeah, having had a friend who was a huge fan of non-English metal, I know that there's more bands than you'd think hiding racism behind their lyrics, especially the German ones because most people don't know what they're really saying. Yeah, the supremacist fuckheads in German music do nothing more than give the whole of German music a bad rap. Shit, I can't even count the number of times people have referred to Rammstein as Nazi or supremacist. How much of this is people who've actually heard of racist German metal and wrongly associate Rammstein with it, and how much is just standard "hurrr Germans are Nazis LOLOLOL" fuckwittery?
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