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Post by ironbite on Mar 21, 2009 0:07:05 GMT -5
This....this is just..............disgusting. I don't care if it's true or not, it's disgusting. This isn't the result of legalizing abortion. This is the result of demonizing abortion and women who have sex before marriage. This is the result of demonizing sex education and sex in general. I truely want to know what is the effect of letting these girls in rurual eviroments(which are generally super-fundie and conservative and Christian) carry a child to term? Shotgun wedding is the only best outcome. The more typical one...beatings.
I also have to disagree with Cait on the whole free abortions thing. I think they should be just as readily availible as other medical procedures and cost the same.
Ironbite-just my feelings on the subject.
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Post by Oriet on Mar 21, 2009 0:15:38 GMT -5
I also have to disagree with Cait on the whole free abortions thing. I think they should be just as readily availible as other medical procedures and cost the same. I agree with Cait that they should be free, along with all other procedures based on the health of the patient. (A lot of plastic surgery, like breast augmentation, isn't important to a patients health and so doesn't need to be (fully) covered, but pregnancy can very negatively affect the health of a woman and so abortions should be fully covered, to make sure the woman's health is maintained and their life not ruined by something that obviously wasn't their choice.)
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Post by ironbite on Mar 21, 2009 0:19:06 GMT -5
I see you're point Oriet but...eh. I'm leery of anything that's done for free. I do support abortion and everything but shouldn't you make sure you're well aware of the consequences of what you're about to do and be prepared to pay all of them? Of course I'm not saying make abortions so expensive that only the super-rich can get them or anything. Just cost the same as other basic medical costs.
Ironbite-kinda like how I pay 20 bucks to go see my doctor.
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Post by Oriet on Mar 21, 2009 0:34:40 GMT -5
Ah, but you have insurance covering most of that fee (as it's often around $60 without insurance), so most of it's already paid. Believe me, a lot of basic medical costs still shoot easily into several hundred dollars, to several thousand if much has to actually be done. To give an example, I'm looking at well over $800 just for simple blood tests, and that'd only be after several hundred to see a specialist a couple times. I'm not gonna guess at the cost of an abortion, especially when it's without insurance (and I'm too lazy to look it up right now), as the impoverished often don't have insurance (cause it costs too bloody much).
Oh, and I fully agree that patients should be fully aware of consequences and ramifications of all medical decisions. That's pretty much already covered though, so doesn't need to be changed.
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Post by antichrist on Mar 21, 2009 0:48:06 GMT -5
Well I live in Canada, and they're free (except for any aftercare, like pain meds). I've never had an abortion, so I don't know a lot about whats involved.
The morning after pill is available OTC. You have to pay for it though Non-residents pay between $450-$600 (so if you live in WA, it may be cheaper to hop the border).
Oh and the pro-lifers argue this, it's illegal to do an abortion after 22 weeks, except in the rare event that your life or health becomes seriously threatened by the pregnancy, or in cases of serious fetal abnormality.
Edit: According to one study though, abortions are illegal in New Brunswick. Since medical care is provincial, I'm not sure if the feds can do anything about that.
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Post by cosmopants on Mar 21, 2009 8:09:43 GMT -5
All this fear and shame! Kinda leads me to the conclusion that social or religious conservatism is simply any system whereby human beings are made to feel ashamed of the human behaviour their biology makes imperative.
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Post by Nutcase on Mar 21, 2009 10:57:54 GMT -5
Since I live in Canada, where all medical procedures are covered by the healthcare system (for which we pay in taxes), I’d say abortion should be free to the individual. Basic and emergency care is always covered here, but we have to pay for most of the aftercare and even for “upgrades” (such as better casts for broken bones) on necessary medical care.
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Post by Caitshidhe on Mar 21, 2009 12:55:41 GMT -5
Oriet: My best friend looked into an abortion a few years ago--in 2003 or 2004, I think--and then it was about $300. I always make sure I have at least $400 in my bank account for it. You know, just in case.
But anyway, I think abortion and BC should be free to all girls and women. And confidential, particularly to girls underage. What a lot of girls in these situations are afraid of is NOT the abortion itself, but the ramifications from their parents for getting pregnant, and then having the abortion. Even if the abortion was free and the aftercare was free, if their parents were notified, scared girls wouldn't have the procedure done because they're just too afraid of their parents and the shame that will come from it to go along with having an abortion or getting BC.
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Post by dantesvirgil on Mar 22, 2009 8:52:06 GMT -5
Just a note, too, that even if abortion were free, that doesn't mean that girls would just run in and get them willy-nilly without thinking of "consequences." Abortions are scary procedures. The cost isn't the scary part (although it can be an obstacle, the women I know who've had one begged and borrowed the money to get the procedure). It's done generally with a local anesthetic--you're awake the whole time. The doctors there will tell you exactly what you're getting into. It's not like you can just go to sleep and wake up and it's over. It can be very traumatic for women, even though they know they are doing the right thing. Then there is the worry about after effects, which rarely happen, but sometimes do. So, I don't think women wouldn't think about the consequences of one just because it was free.
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Post by Caitshidhe on Mar 22, 2009 13:08:33 GMT -5
I didn't know that abortions were done under a local--I thought it was general. The women I've known who've had them were under for the procedure. Maybe it's different depending on where you live or how far along you are? I have no idea.
Anyway, I agree with DV--making abortions free or nearly free won't make women go in willy-nilly to have them done and use them for their primary form of birth control. It's a surgical procedure, plain and simple, and NOT the kind of thing that a woman or girl would (or SHOULD) take lightly.
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Post by dantesvirgil on Mar 22, 2009 20:01:33 GMT -5
All the women I've known who had them had a local. I would say it definitely has to do with how far along you are, though. I've never had one, so I can't really speak further than the help I've given friends.
Even for general, there is the fear of being in the waiting room in the hospital gown hearing what goes on in the next room with four other women sitting/laying there with you. Not a pleasant experience.
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Rubyfruit
New Member
Just your friendly neighborhood bisexual Agnostic
Posts: 33
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Post by Rubyfruit on Mar 22, 2009 20:45:33 GMT -5
I don't even know if this is true or not. But if it is true, then the reason why a person would induce a miscarriage would probably be....because their parents would disown them for being pregnant in the first place and it's harder to just disappear and come back with a Magically Occuring Baby. Maybe.
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Post by wackadoodle on Mar 22, 2009 21:07:42 GMT -5
I saw Teens self-inducing ab... on the forum list and knew this was gonna be horrible.
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Post by Caitshidhe on Mar 22, 2009 21:44:04 GMT -5
Yep, that pre-procedure wait must be agonizing, even for the women who KNOW this is what they want and KNOW they would be miserable otherwise. I didn't even like waiting for my lithotripsy, and I know that if I was waiting for an abortion, I'd probably be fairly edgy and I'm adamantly childfree. And then when you think about the blatant emotional blackmail that some jurisdictions force women and girls to go through--like viewing an ultrasound of their pregnancy before they can go for an abortion--it's actually quite sick.
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