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Post by big_electron on Jan 11, 2010 23:42:52 GMT -5
Yeah, about the not reading the Bible part? Witnesses have a meeting segment every week dedicated to just that. Not saying it's not a cult, because it most certainly is. But at least get it right as to why. Spreading misinformation just discredits the person spreading it. By the way, something that's been bothering me for a while: the faith's adherents are called Jehovah's Witnesses, what's the religion itself called? Jehovah's Witnessing? The Truth. Seriously. Actually it's official name is Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, and their "churches" are called Kingdom Halls. @dv: you said it's a cult. What strikes you as cultish? What should I be telling people that I'm not? You and others have said I'm saying things I shouldn't. Now fill me in as to what you want said about them.
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Post by dantesvirgil on Jan 11, 2010 23:50:25 GMT -5
The organization itself is called the Watchtower B&T Society, yes. But if you knew any JW at all instead of watching Youtubes all day, you'd know immediately that when they are referring to their religion they call it "the Truth" -- they call the people who are in charge "the Society". Their churches are KHs, but that's not what was asked.
Frankly, it's not my job to give you the complete lowdown on what you "should be" telling people. You shouldn't be telling people anything if you don't know what you're talking about. There are plenty of online sites run by former and current JWs who want reform that are very accurate. That set o' YouTubes ain't it.
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Post by Admiral Lithp on Jan 11, 2010 23:53:50 GMT -5
Fundie Christians don't call themselves Protestants. In fact, they frequently maintain that Christianity is "a relationship, not a religion."
Does that mean they aren't Protestants?
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Post by kristine on Jan 12, 2010 1:05:27 GMT -5
Fundie Christians don't call themselves Protestants. In fact, they frequently maintain that Christianity is "a relationship, not a religion." Does that mean they aren't Protestants? they are protesting it's not a religion right? - they seem to protest about a lot of things. Is a protestant the opposite of a contestant?
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Post by twinters on Jan 12, 2010 2:03:06 GMT -5
Is it just me or at 0:29 when Michael raises the sword and the lightning is in the background that flashbacks of He-Man and Adam doing the whole "By the power of Greyskull..." come into your mind. Only He-Man had better animation.
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Post by big_electron on Jan 12, 2010 7:55:43 GMT -5
@dv:
Maybe not entirely accurate, but it's not all bullshit either. I remember as a teenager (I'm 37 now), when I was still a Christian myself, I was told things like JW's believe that Jesus is actually an angel, blah blah blah.
Actually I have seen some of the tracts they left in my door. They use Bible verses, but those verses are cherry-picked. Everyone knows that you can make the Bible say ANYTHING by cherry-picking verses. I'm sure they do this so that they can say they believe the Bible, but in actuality, they believe what their betters tell them to believe. Read only the verses they tell you to read, then shut the Bible and don't read anymore!
When you see some of the beliefs that they harbor, then you know that all this is not entirely false. My favorite example is that they believe that Christ returned invisibly in 1874. However, reading from the Catholic and Protestant canon, specifically the book of Revelation, you would get the idea that Christ's second coming will be obvious and unmistakable.
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Post by secretsquirrelsock on Jan 12, 2010 8:19:58 GMT -5
@dv: Maybe not entirely accurate, but it's not all bullshit either. I remember as a teenager (I'm 37 now), when I was still a Christian myself, I was told things like JW's believe that Jesus is actually an angel, blah blah blah. To which my immediate question is... "told by whom?" Don't get me wrong, no friend of the Jdubs here, indeed, once had to be dragged away from one in the street by friends so I didn't hurt him (another story). But my point is, while I don't for a moment doubt that you believe that the Jdubs believe what you've SAID they believe... were you told this by a Jdub or by someone trying to discredit the Jdubs? Goes to motive, as the lawyers would say. To put it in a familiar context, many creationists genuinely believe that the theory of evolution claims eyes were popped fully formed into existance by random chance. Thats not the issue. The issue is, did the person telling them that have any credible reason to think so, or where they just pulling mangled, garbled half remembered strawmen out of the air?
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Post by big_electron on Jan 12, 2010 8:54:14 GMT -5
A lot of it is former JW's. I saw a video of people marching around the Watchtower building with signs, "You lied in 1914, 1927, 1941, 1975. As for their crazy theology, it has to be from people who have been in a long time, then when they learned this, couldn't take it anymore.
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Post by m52nickerson on Jan 12, 2010 10:51:23 GMT -5
@dv: Maybe not entirely accurate, but it's not all bullshit either. I remember as a teenager (I'm 37 now), when I was still a Christian myself, I was told things like JW's believe that Jesus is actually an angel, blah blah blah. It only takes a little bullshit to make something smell bad. Every christian sect cherry picks bible verses. That does not indicate that they tell people only to read certain parts of the bible. I would believe DV before anyone one who is not a former member. Any statement that is not entirely false is also not entirely true, and false by its nature. If you want to speak out against JW then you need to get you facts straight and be total honest and accurate or you criticism is not worth a thing.
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Post by Vene on Jan 12, 2010 14:49:40 GMT -5
PPB, the problem is that you have only heard things about what they believe, but DV and A. Sapien (and others I am probably forgetting) were Jehovah's Witnesses and know it far better than any outsider could.
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Post by RavynousHunter on Jan 12, 2010 15:27:41 GMT -5
Am I the only one who has only a very slight hint of what the flying fuck PPB is saying? He makes Skyfire seem coherent.
Also, you seem to have conveniently forgotten about the many other Christan schisms that profess to know the exact date of the End of the World (TM). Its not just the Witnesses.
Poe Boy, if you actually want to be looked upon as something more than just another random dickhead with a chip the size of Belgium on his shoulder, then I suggest you look at places other than YouTube. Most YouTube posters are as "fair and balanced" as Fox News.
Most Witnesses are, to quote Rammstein, "about as dangerous as bunch of choir boys."
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Post by A. Sapien on Jan 12, 2010 18:33:49 GMT -5
Okay, I'm done talking with you. I have no love for the organization, and am a rather vocal critic when they come up, but you've already been corrected by this point by former JWs, and now you're just seeming bullheaded. You come across as going, "Wow look how stupid the Witnesses are!" While making excuses for other Christian groups, and why you can at least 'agree to disagree'.
Witnesses and Mormons on the same level? Hardly. Witnesses are on the same level as any other Christian group, the only thing that differs is the dogma, and that's all based on interpretation.
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Post by Admiral Lithp on Jan 12, 2010 18:50:32 GMT -5
TL;DR version: They want sources other than YouTube.
Guys, I know what you're getting at, but saying things like "just some random dickhead with a chip the size of Belgium on his shoulder" to the guy on his way into the door isn't really coming across very well on your parts, either.
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Post by RavynousHunter on Jan 12, 2010 20:47:52 GMT -5
Except in this case, he is being a dickhead. Newbie status does not exempt one from dickhead status.
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Post by Admiral Lithp on Jan 13, 2010 3:10:19 GMT -5
Two pages in & you've decided that he's a dickhead.
Makes sense to me!
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