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Post by Lady Renae on Mar 31, 2009 1:59:39 GMT -5
Family is never easy to deal with. I don't think my girlfriend's parents know she likes guys, let alone that she's a woman. She's not telling them either, and since she can't live on her own yet I'm reluctantly agreeing with that choice. I've met the people. They are not Renae-approved by any stretch.
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Post by Bojangles on Mar 31, 2009 2:45:36 GMT -5
Yeah, my stepfather has on many occasions claimed that it's possible to "beat the gayness out".
I never quite got the logic behind that but he did always tell the story of when he was younger one of his father's friends thought his son was gay so took a belt to him and after that the son was "cured".
Of course it never entered anyone's head that this boy was simply too damn frightened to do anything that could be considered gay in his father's presence again. It didn't mean he was "cured".
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Em.
New Member
I dreamt of a future unforged.
Posts: 31
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Post by Em. on Mar 31, 2009 2:47:08 GMT -5
Edit: Wish I knew more bisexual women, I'm more attracted to them than hetero girls. Come to Gold Coast, Australia, and we may be able to talk. Or Tasmania...
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Post by renaissanceblonde on Mar 31, 2009 5:08:34 GMT -5
Come to Gold Coast, Australia, and we may be able to talk. Or Tasmania... Gold Coast's got the better climate and we're not related to each other! *is kidding. Kind of.*
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Post by canadian mojo on Mar 31, 2009 5:44:48 GMT -5
Yeah, my stepfather has on many occasions claimed that it's possible to "beat the gayness out". I never quite got the logic behind that but he did always tell the story of when he was younger one of his father's friends thought his son was gay so took a belt to him and after that the son was "cured". Of course it never entered anyone's head that this boy was simply too damn frightened to do anything that could be considered gay in his father's presence again. It didn't mean he was "cured". Scared into (public) obedience is the fundie version of cured. Why else does their god need a hell?
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Post by schizophonic on Mar 31, 2009 7:55:19 GMT -5
Edit: Wish I knew more bisexual women, I'm more attracted to them than hetero girls. Really? I'm up to my armpits in them! Family is never easy to deal with. I don't think my girlfriend's parents know she likes guys, let alone that she's a woman. She's not telling them either, and since she can't live on her own yet I'm reluctantly agreeing with that choice. I've met the people. They are not Renae-approved by any stretch. Yikes! Yeah, my stepfather has on many occasions claimed that it's possible to "beat the gayness out". I never quite got the logic behind that but he did always tell the story of when he was younger one of his father's friends thought his son was gay so took a belt to him and after that the son was "cured". Of course it never entered anyone's head that this boy was simply too damn frightened to do anything that could be considered gay in his father's presence again. It didn't mean he was "cured". But remember, sexuality is a choice, so beating him until he makes the "right choice" is a perfectly acceptable cure. After all, we're only GBLT because we hate God, are angry at our parents, or were abused as children, right?
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Post by devilschaplain2 on Mar 31, 2009 9:59:47 GMT -5
Really? Oh, you suck so hard, Poster-Formerly-Known-As-Schizophrenic...
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Post by Paradox on Mar 31, 2009 10:36:58 GMT -5
My parents don't like gay people that much, but I don't think they'd kick me out if I was gay. They wouldn't be happy though. I don't know, it might force them to reconsider their opinions on gay people. They're not inflexable. Fortunatly for me, the closest I get to gay is a secret mancrush on Jonny Depp. So I'm probably safe. But I've always wondered what my parents would do had I been born gay.
My children will not have to ask this question to themselves. I assure you of that.
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Post by machiavelli on Mar 31, 2009 10:39:22 GMT -5
Yeah, my stepfather has on many occasions claimed that it's possible to "beat the gayness out". I never quite got the logic behind that but he did always tell the story of when he was younger one of his father's friends thought his son was gay so took a belt to him and after that the son was "cured". Of course it never entered anyone's head that this boy was simply too damn frightened to do anything that could be considered gay in his father's presence again. It didn't mean he was "cured". I think that's the part of Judeo-Christian morality I hate the most. Trying to shove completely natural (and I would argue Necessary) human emotions (jealousy) and impulses (lust, sexuality) back into the depths of ourselves as if somehow, by golly, the Help of the Lord, they would just disappear. I even remember reading one Christian magazine that claimed scientists isolated the "Gay" gene in goats, as if to suggest homosexuality was a mutation of some sort. That is dangerously close to Hitler's eugenics program.... Dangerously close..
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Post by Paradox on Mar 31, 2009 10:45:51 GMT -5
I've always seen it not so much as suppressing emotions like that, but controlling them. Things like lust and jealousy can, when let out of control, cause a lot of harm to you and the ones you love. Of course I'll be the first one to admit than many, many Christians go way the hell off of the deep end in that regard.
I think it's got to do with their own self-doubt. Many of these people believe that, were it not for the promise of eternal hellfire, there would be no reason not to rape, steal and murder. They have been taught to doubt that they have any measure of self control at all, and so believe that they must abstain from anything that could even posibally get out of hand, least they go overboard and end up damned (see also: drinking)
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Post by machiavelli on Mar 31, 2009 10:53:49 GMT -5
I've always seen it not so much as suppressing emotions like that, but controlling them. Things like lust and jealousy can, when let out of control, cause a lot of harm to you and the ones you love. Of course I'll be the first one to admit than many, many Christians go way the hell off of the deep end in that regard. I think it's got to do with their own self-doubt. Many of these people believe that, were it not for the promise of eternal hellfire, there would be no reason not to rape, steal and murder. They have been taught to doubt that they have any measure of self control at all, and so believe that they must abstain from anything that could even posibally get out of hand, least they go overboard and end up damned (see also: drinking) I agree with you that negative emotions can cause harm. But they are nevertheless perfectly natural. The difference is what you do with them that counts. Friedrich Nietzsche, and many future psychologists argue that its important to turn these emotions into something productive (i.e when I am frustrated, i go to the gym) rather than have it bottle up inside, which is what many alcoholics, drug addicts and religious teachings do (well not entirely religious teachings, because their belief in a God acts to a certain extent as an "escape way" for bad emotions). On your second point, I whole heatedly agree. This might sound obvious, but their entire belief structure depends on a God, and on a belief in the after life. Without either of the two, their vision of morality crumbles and Christians will take revenge into their own hands (Which is probably why many fundies end up saying without God, I would have killed dozens). Edit: I don't mean to derail the subject. I wonder if the Christian value against sodomy and gay love is due to the fact that they rejected Ancient Greek philosophy and were competing heavily against them at the very early stages of Christianity. I am pretty sure J.C had bigger fish to fry than dealing with Gay love.
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Post by Lady Renae on Mar 31, 2009 11:01:35 GMT -5
I just remembered something I'd rather not remember. When I was dating Peter (my most recent ex) we had several conversations about how we would treat our kids and our opinions on various hot-topic political issues. One of the things that we fought about the most was sexuality.
He would never allow his children to be around a gay male couple if one of them wore female clothing in public because he once saw a relationship like that and observed that the non-dress guy liked to beat the one in the dress. In fact, he would never let his kids be around anyone he considered a "deviant" who was open about it except me because of that incident and a couple similar ones, and he would prefer if I wasn't as open about it as I normally am until the kids had grown up.
He would disown a gay son unless he had more than one, in which case he would "love him less" because he's big on carrying on the family name and all that tripe.
He would only allow me to have a "man of honor" instead of a maid of honor at our wedding (we were planning on getting married) if said man wore a tux and stood on HIS side of the aisle instead of mine, and I couldn't have any cross-dressed men in my procession because he felt bad for the guys in his side who would have to walk arm in arm with these people, and besides it would be spitting on marriage (he at least had the decency to realize and admit he was arguing for the WORD "marriage" instead of the concept... he thought gays should be allowed to have a ceremony with the same rights and whatnot but they had to get their own word because his word was special and some bullshit like that) and he would not have HIS wedding 'ruined' by 'that deviance' (this was the guy who was going to let me keep a cage and other such toys in the bedroom...).
He isn't even fundie. He's atheist. Granted, he was raised in a catholic family and attended a catholic high school, but he's atheist through-and-through. He's just... conservative.
And for the record, no I didn't dump him because of all this stuff, our relationship fell apart after an unfortunate 'confessions' conversation where a few early (but unrepeated) infidelities of mine were uncovered. Yes we still talk and are still friends, and yes he knows I'm now dating a woman. No he doesn't know that woman has boyparts. Given the amount of happy he has with his new girlfriend, however, I don't think he would care anymore. I do think the rest of his views are intact, though, but I can't know for sure since we haven't talked about them.
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Post by Paradox on Mar 31, 2009 11:03:43 GMT -5
Why did you date this guy in the first place?
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Post by schizophonic on Mar 31, 2009 11:26:25 GMT -5
Really? Oh, you suck so hard, Poster-Formerly-Known-As-Schizophrenic... I don't get many complaints, thank you. But it probably doesn't hurt I live in one of the gayest communities in the US (Per capita, mind, we've only got like fifteen people in Vermont). My parents don't like gay people that much, but I don't think they'd kick me out if I was gay. They wouldn't be happy though. I don't know, it might force them to reconsider their opinions on gay people. They're not inflexable. Fortunatly for me, the closest I get to gay is a secret mancrush on Jonny Depp. So I'm probably safe. But I've always wondered what my parents would do had I been born gay. My children will not have to ask this question to themselves. I assure you of that. I agree. Now if they're Republicans, I'll kick them out. I kid. Should I ever have kids, the big worry will NOT be if they're "undesirable."
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Post by Lady Renae on Mar 31, 2009 11:42:02 GMT -5
Why did you date this guy in the first place? That question is more common than I'd like... but the answer is fairly simple. That isn't the guy I met, and it isn't the guy I was dating. To be more specific... I met him on xbox live (if you're going to make fun of me for that make damn sure you have an actual reason other than "online relationships are always stupid" or "people who date online are always losers" or something similar because I will rip you to shreds if that's your primary reasoning) and fell in love with his intellect and humor, both of which were far beyond anyone else I knew at the time and most of the people I'd ever known. I enjoyed conversing with him, and the political, religious, and general life standards debates I had with him were so intellectually invigorating our brains may as well have been having the kind of sex that would make the most raunchy porn stars blush and steady themselves against the wall. He emphasized to me the importance of appreciating myself for who I am and standing up for that person rather than kowtowing to my parents and allowing them and others to force me into a role I knew full well wasn't who I wanted to be. He was my voice of reason when I went off the deep end, and he forced me to actually examine my thoughts and beliefs about myself and the world rather than just taking everything for granted and dwelling in my comfort zone of ignorance about the world around me. In return, I provided him with a safe place to bitch about his life and the asshats in it, and I helped him heal from his particularly devastating recent breakup from a girlfriend so abusive I literally wanted to hunt the woman down and destroy her life to the point of driving her into insanity (yes she actually deserved it, but I won't tell you why because the results of her abuse are rather private). Add to that the fact that he's incredible in bed and actually fun to fight with, and I was hooked. He didn't mind that I had opinions that were drastically different from his either. Yes, we argued about them, but he didn't try to change my opinion and I didn't try to change his. We cared about each other a lot, and that's really saying something for him because he was pretty damn neutral about pretty much everyone except the few people he actually felt negatively towards. Me, however, he cared about and loved. He even went out of his way to be more tolerant about some things and allowed me to prove him wrong on others. This just happened to be the one area where he wouldn't budge. And yes, he believes that being around people who openly live alternative lifestyles and display alternative sexualities will make one more likely to partake in such themselves. Since there was no study absolutely confirming that sexuality is a trait you're born with, I never got very far with that argument. His debating skills are a tad better than mine, and in things we feel really strongly about we both insist on high-power evidence like peer-reviewed studies. So yeah, I actually dated the guy, and yes I actually stayed with him when I learned these things about him. I always figured if the day came I would put my foot down and he would have to listen since I knew I would hold more power in that area of the household due to being the person who actually knew how to deal with other human beings effectively.
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