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Post by John E on Mar 7, 2010 19:51:56 GMT -5
Is it stupid for a woman to walk around at night wearing a bathing suit in a bad area? Yes. Very stupid. But that doesn't remove any blame from her rapist. I don't see why people don't understand this. Exactly. Blame isn't a finite resource, where if you place a certain amount of blame on one person, you have to put that amount less blame on the other person. Even if (and this is a big if) a woman does something so stupid that it justifies placing some blame on her for her rape (like I said, it's a BIG if, please don't flame me), the rapist isn't any less to blame.
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Post by secretsquirrelsock on Mar 7, 2010 20:01:25 GMT -5
Is it stupid for a woman to walk around at night wearing a bathing suit in a bad area? Yes. Very stupid. But that doesn't remove any blame from her rapist. I don't see why people don't understand this. Exactly. Blame isn't a finite resource, where if you place a certain amount of blame on one person, you have to put that amount less blame on the other person. Even if (and this is a big if) a woman does something so stupid that it justifies placing some blame on her for her rape (like I said, it's a BIG if, please don't flame me), the rapist isn't any less to blame. QFT.
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Post by davedan on Mar 7, 2010 20:12:18 GMT -5
Although if wearing a swimsuit was the cause of the rape there would be a lot more on beaches and at public swimming pools. That there aren't (and that the concern is wearing a bathing suit down a dark street) makes me think that the incidence of rape isn't really that closely related to what the woman is wearing.
However what I suspect is that there are certain dangerous areas to walk alone and unaccompanied for women. I also suspect that the same areas are dangerous for men (in a different way - that is they are likely to get mugged). But I think the danger is in being in a dangerous area not in what the woman was wearing.
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Post by Vene on Mar 7, 2010 20:24:45 GMT -5
I'd better stop carrying a purse so criminals aren't tempted to snatch it. You should probably lock yourself in your basement. Going outside wearing anything is just asking for some a gang color misidentification and subsequent drive by. But if you lock it, that's just an invitation for somebody to pick it and rob you. Although if wearing a swimsuit was the cause of the rape there would be a lot more on beaches and at public swimming pools. That there aren't (and that the concern is wearing a bathing suit down a dark street) makes me think that the incidence of rape isn't really that closely related to what the woman is wearing. However what I suspect is that there are certain dangerous areas to walk alone and unaccompanied for women. I also suspect that the same areas are dangerous for men (in a different way - that is they are likely to get mugged). But I think the danger is in being in a dangerous area not in what the woman was wearing. This, very much this.
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Post by secretsquirrelsock on Mar 7, 2010 20:24:52 GMT -5
Although if wearing a swimsuit was the cause of the rape there would be a lot more on beaches and at public swimming pools. That there aren't (and that the concern is wearing a bathing suit down a dark street) makes me think that the incidence of rape isn't really that closely related to what the woman is wearing. However what I suspect is that there are certain dangerous areas to walk alone and unaccompanied for women. I also suspect that the same areas are dangerous for men (in a different way - that is they are likely to get mugged). But I think the danger is in being in a dangerous area not in what the woman was wearing. IMHO, what a woman WEARS is rarely, if ever, a contributing factor in a rape. Where a woman goes, at what time of day, and whether accompanied or unaccompanied, are far more likely to be contributing factors. That said, I agree with JE, a woman could be walking along the dark alley between the Hell's Angel clubhouse and the sex offenders' halfway house, alone, at 3am the morning after pension day wearing nothing but a string bikini and stilletos, that doesn't make it OK to rape her, and anyone who does so is 100% at fault. Doesn't make being there a good idea though, and failing to recognise that some situations are more likely to result in an assault is not a virtue. She has a RIGHT to be there dressed like that. But rights by themselves are no guarantee of anything. Rape is wrong. But pretending there is no way to reduce the risks doesn't help.
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Post by John E on Mar 7, 2010 20:29:57 GMT -5
Context is important though. Wearing a swimsuit in the context of a beach elicits a different reaction than wearing a swimsuit in some other context.
More importantly though, the context of modern western society is WAY different than the context of ancient Israeli society. One thing these religious rape apologists fail to accept is that most of the outfits they're denouncing as immodest AREN'T, by the standards of the day, and that's what matters when it come to the response it elicits from (non-crazy-religious) people.
A woman in a pair of jean might have ancient goat herders crazy with lust, but it doesn't make modern men look twice (unless they're really tight or something).
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Post by davedan on Mar 7, 2010 20:42:40 GMT -5
Context, well yes, except that for the rape apologists the mere site of that flesh (that sweet, sweet flesh) should be enough to set a man off like some sort of sexual nuclear torpedo who then proceeds to be driven to sexual congress regardless of whether the object of there lust consents.
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Post by Vene on Mar 7, 2010 20:46:28 GMT -5
I think it's worth pointing out that the majority of people raped were raped by somebody they already know and trust, so the dark alley thing isn't really as relevant as it seems.
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Post by Mira on Mar 7, 2010 20:50:00 GMT -5
Next you're going to tell me most kidnappings don't involve windowless white vans and candy.
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Bigg
Junior Member
Posts: 94
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Post by Bigg on Mar 7, 2010 22:07:03 GMT -5
BTW, I was wearing jeans, Converse shoes, and a huge purple sweatshirt. You couldn't see the shape of my body at all. Shoulda been in the kitchen, barefoot and either naked or wearing a burka . Women these days.
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Post by Thejebusfire on Mar 7, 2010 23:36:28 GMT -5
A few years ago I was going for a drive with my mother, when I noticed out of the corner of my eye this very attractive guy jogging down the street. If it weren't for my mom, I would have jumped out the car and went running after him like a crazy woman. Now, if I did what I imagined about doing to this guy, would it be his fault for not wearing a shirt that day, or mine for not controlling myself?
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Post by John E on Mar 7, 2010 23:40:20 GMT -5
Don't be silly. It's impossible for a woman to rape a man, because men always want it. /sarcasm
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Post by davedan on Mar 8, 2010 1:13:39 GMT -5
I think one of the things that people suggest to say that a woman can't rape a man (and we're talking purely penis/vagina intercourse here) is that if a man did not to consent he would not be erect.
As I said this is purely penis/vagina intercourse between a man and a woman here, not man on man or pegging or digital or object penetration of the man.
Within this narrow confine there are certainly people who would suggest that men can't be raped.
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Post by cagnazzo on Mar 8, 2010 1:18:14 GMT -5
Within this narrow confine there are certainly people who would suggest that men can't be raped. Oh, yes. These people have failed physiology, but yes.
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Post by Mira on Mar 8, 2010 1:18:28 GMT -5
Erection (as well as female lubrication) is an involuntary function. The genitals have no concept of consent.
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