|
Post by Nutcase on Mar 29, 2009 14:23:04 GMT -5
This was the same woman that made statements that she planned on supporting her brood by becoming a television childcare expert. This is precisely the kind of thing I’m talking about: her self-awareness and her ability to grasp the facts of this situation – they’re distorted. Other mentally ill people aren’t reviled for having a warped thought process. She shouldn’t be, either. After all, her doctor was the one who ignored the warning signs, and who flouted protocol to implant a higher number of embryos per treatment than specified by existing guidelines. His actions were unprofessional and unethical. It should. How trained professionals treat a woman who is not herself a trained professional, and who is clearly suffering from some kind of mental illness, will directly impact how her children are cared for. If AIW had really been interested in helping the children, and not merely in media-flogging their mother, they would have approached Suleman in a far less antagonistic and more non-judgmental manner. Society has absorbed the costs of mothers-of-many for decades, and also the cost incurred by certain irresponsible men who’ll bed (and perhaps impregnate) anything that moves. There are oodles of people out there collecting social assistance for having a bunch of kids the old-fashioned way. The result is still the same: lots of kids being supported in part or in whole by the social service net. How Suleman went about this is unusual, but her lack of foresight and her irresponsibility are all too common. On the flip side, she's been bought a house and has had round the clock care volunteered for her. Oh noes, they filed reports on her. They insinuated themselves into Suleman’s life through threats, and continued to use threats as a form of behavior modification once they were on-site. This goes well beyond the duty of a mandated reporter and enters the territory of punitive action against the mother for her choices. Those “round the clock volunteers” were acting as agents for CPS and as insider media sources at the same time. Not only were they unprofessional, but their lack of discretion created a conflict of interest. The only people in this situation that I feel genuinely sorry for are the kids--their mom is an irresponsible, obsessive child-hoarder who has given absolutely zero thought to how she's going to support them and has thus far given them the spectacular message that THEY DON'T MATTER once they're out of the baby-stage. I agree with you, though I doubt she sees it that way. Her shockingly poor self-awareness led her into this situation. Her fertility doctor made money. Dr. Phil made money. Gloria Allred made money. AIW probably made good coin off this as well. (They certainly got some great press coverage.) About the only people who didn’t make significant money off this are the staff at Kaiser Permanente. They carried the entire burden of the octuplets’ care after the kids were born. They’re currently training Suleman’s nannies. And they, being professionals, have stayed out of the limelight despite the fact that medical care for the premie octuplets has pretty much ravaged their budget. And…and…they’re at least on speaking terms with Suleman, which ensures her children are getting both the nursing care and the privacy they deserve.
|
|
|
Post by schizophonic on Mar 29, 2009 14:29:48 GMT -5
Child-hoarding. LOL. I never looked at it that way before. But I guess she is another version of the "crazy cat lady." Woah woah woah...I take offense at that!
|
|
|
Post by schizophonic on Mar 29, 2009 14:32:54 GMT -5
You're right. They should have been less antagonistic. Is the common response, to throw her in jail and/or take away her children less antagonistic? Because really....
|
|
|
Post by Nutcase on Mar 29, 2009 14:34:17 GMT -5
So where is TLC with her tv deal? Ironbite-cause if they gave a deal to those Drugger idiots I want this woman to have one as well. That’s precisely it. The Duggars are “good” parents of many. Suleman is a “bad” parent of many. The Duggars are married, Christian, white, debt-free, and organized. They present themselves as wholesome people. It doesn’t matter that they treat children merely as ammunition – a quiver-full of arrows – to be shot at their enemies in the culture wars. Suleman is not married, not fundie Christian, not white, not monied, and not organized. She doesn’t present herself well before the cameras. The result: The Duggars get a television show and a house built for them and a sleazy wedding special where the bride is officially graduated from her father’s obedience school and given to Joshua Duggar as a subordinate – a “helpmeet” to bear his umpteen children. In some ways, their attitudes towards children are as cavalier as Suleman’s, but that doesn’t matter. They did it for religion. Suleman is merely selfish. They're on the side of the angels; Suleman is a monster.
|
|
|
Post by MozMode on Mar 29, 2009 14:34:49 GMT -5
You know what? I'm joining DV here. The only people in this situation that I feel genuinely sorry for are the kids--their mom is an irresponsible, obsessive child-hoarder who has given absolutely zero thought to how she's going to support them and has thus far given them the spectacular message that THEY DON'T MATTER once they're out of the baby-stage. Not only that, but the eight she just had are, as DV said, going to have a number of medical problems due to being premature as well has magnifying the risks that already come with carrying multiples--more normal multiples, like three. She's a media whore, pure and simple. She expected to have all of this FABULOUS support and all kinds of endorsement deals, donations, freebies, and she expected someone to hand her a television show on a silver platter--instead it turned around and bit her in the ass because people looked at her and realized just how stupid and irresponsible she'd been and weren't afraid to tell her this. And everybody else will have to foot the bill for her bringing all of these kids into the world; it's not even a case of "she could have afforded to have fourteen kids, but then the economy shat itself and she needs help now", there was NEVER any money there to begin with for her to do this. And now she's trying to climb all over the media because people aren't coddling her. I can't speak for her mental or emotional stability because I don't know her and, if there is a god, I'll never have to meet her--but it's pretty clear that she has some kind of an obsessive compulsive problem here. It's like cat-hoarding. Except in those cases, the people are told, "Look, you can't have another cat, you have a problem. You need to get help." It's all-around a really fucked-up situation but there's no way anybody can undo it. You know, I wouldn't be surprised if she was delusional enough to do all of this just for a tv show and endorsements, Jon & Kate +8 style or the Duggars. I think the obsessive baby hoarding idea plays a part, yes, but ya know, I kind of think she's crazy enough to do this just for the publicity. Looking at all of the crap that has happened SINCE the birth of the 8.... her calling 911 multiple times, giving all these media interviews, saying she hasn't had plastic surgery or lip injections when she CLEARLY has. It just seems like it's all a publicity stunt.
|
|
|
Post by Nutcase on Mar 29, 2009 14:37:44 GMT -5
You're right. They should have been less antagonistic. Is the common response, to throw her in jail and/or take away her children less antagonistic? Because really.... If CPS deems her unfit and takes her kids away, they'll have done it with the best interests of the children in mind, and not merely to antagonize the mother for making choices the court of public opinion doesn't agree with. They would also keep their investigations confidential, and not appear all over the media to slag Suleman for being a bad mother.
|
|
|
Post by MozMode on Mar 29, 2009 14:47:39 GMT -5
So where is TLC with her tv deal? Ironbite-cause if they gave a deal to those Drugger idiots I want this woman to have one as well. That’s precisely it. The Duggars are “good” parents of many. Suleman is a “bad” parent of many. The Duggars are married, Christian, white, debt-free, and organized. They present themselves as wholesome people. It doesn’t matter that they treat children merely as ammunition – a quiver-full of arrows – to be shot at their enemies in the culture wars. Suleman is not married, not fundie Christian, not white, not monied, and not organized. She doesn’t present herself well before the cameras. The result: The Duggars get a television show and a house built for them and a sleazy wedding special where the bride is officially graduated from her father’s obedience school and given to Joshua Duggar as a subordinate – a “helpmeet” to bear his umpteen children. In some ways, their attitudes towards children are as cavalier as Suleman’s, but that doesn’t matter. They did it for religion. Suleman is merely selfish. They're on the side of the angels; Suleman is a monster. "Good" in the creepy, Super Fundie, indoctrinating home schooling way, I suppose. Lol. And that wedding special WAS kind of sleazy, wasn't it? Felt bad for the chick...hopefully Josh doesn't choose that retarded quiverfull shit, because otherwise she's going to be stuck popping out like 30 kids.
|
|
|
Post by Caitshidhe on Mar 29, 2009 15:02:20 GMT -5
I hate the the Duggars are "good" breeders--frankly, they're all disgusting for breeding so irresponsibly! But it's more socially acceptable to be a Super-Fundie Christian Indoctrinating Homeschooling Woman-Hating family than it is to be a single crazy-baby-lady, even though both families are just as harmful to the same people: the children. THEY'RE the ones who get a real bum deal out of the whole thing.
|
|
|
Post by schizophonic on Mar 29, 2009 15:45:19 GMT -5
If CPS deems her unfit and takes her kids away, they'll have done it with the best interests of the children in mind, and not merely to antagonize the mother for making choices the court of public opinion doesn't agree with. They would also keep their investigations confidential, and not appear all over the media to slag Suleman for being a bad mother. Best interests. THAT explains the disparities between blacks and whites...They don't want any of these poor kids raised negro.
|
|
|
Post by Jodie on Mar 29, 2009 17:32:08 GMT -5
You know what? I'm joining DV here. The only people in this situation that I feel genuinely sorry for are the kids--their mom is an irresponsible, obsessive child-hoarder who has given absolutely zero thought to how she's going to support them and has thus far given them the spectacular message that THEY DON'T MATTER once they're out of the baby-stage. Not only that, but the eight she just had are, as DV said, going to have a number of medical problems due to being premature as well has magnifying the risks that already come with carrying multiples--more normal multiples, like three. She's a media whore, pure and simple. She expected to have all of this FABULOUS support and all kinds of endorsement deals, donations, freebies, and she expected someone to hand her a television show on a silver platter--instead it turned around and bit her in the ass because people looked at her and realized just how stupid and irresponsible she'd been and weren't afraid to tell her this. And everybody else will have to foot the bill for her bringing all of these kids into the world; it's not even a case of "she could have afforded to have fourteen kids, but then the economy shat itself and she needs help now", there was NEVER any money there to begin with for her to do this. And now she's trying to climb all over the media because people aren't coddling her. I can't speak for her mental or emotional stability because I don't know her and, if there is a god, I'll never have to meet her--but it's pretty clear that she has some kind of an obsessive compulsive problem here. It's like cat-hoarding. Except in those cases, the people are told, "Look, you can't have another cat, you have a problem. You need to get help." It's all-around a really fucked-up situation but there's no way anybody can undo it. Exalt +1
|
|
|
Post by antichrist on Mar 29, 2009 21:33:36 GMT -5
My main question is how the hell does someone on financial assistance afford IVF? Doesn't that cost upwards of $15K?
|
|
|
Post by Caitshidhe on Mar 29, 2009 21:42:00 GMT -5
My main question is how the hell does someone on financial assistance afford IVF? Doesn't that cost upwards of $15K? From what I've heard, she hoarded disability checks to pay for it. Or Social Security. Some kind of support benefit, in any case--money that was NOT meant to be used for this.
|
|
|
Post by Thejebusfire on Mar 29, 2009 21:54:44 GMT -5
My main question is how the hell does someone on financial assistance afford IVF? Doesn't that cost upwards of $15K? From what I've heard, she hoarded disability checks to pay for it. Or Social Security. Some kind of support benefit, in any case--money that was NOT meant to be used for this. Yes, I think she stole some money from her mother's disability check. But I'm not sure if that's true. I was going to add more to this, but everything I was going to say has been said before.
|
|
|
Post by Nutcase on Mar 29, 2009 22:33:45 GMT -5
Best interests. THAT explains the disparities between blacks and whites...They don't want any of these poor kids raised negro. I think that pretty much depends on where someone lives. I don’t think black social workers are going to view a black woman as a bad parent merely because of her race – and nor, for that matter, would most white or Latino social workers. My point wasn’t that CPS doesn’t fuck up; it’s simply that CPS presumably knows more about the situation than either Gloria Allred or Linda West-Conforti. Members of the hospital staff are, after all, permitted to share confidential information with CPS. Allred and West-Conforti didn’t know any more about this case than the average person when they first butted in, and they still don’t know as much about it as the hospital staff. My main question is how the hell does someone on financial assistance afford IVF? Doesn't that cost upwards of $15K? I believe Suleman got a settlement for an on-the-job injury she’d sustained years earlier, and was using that money to finance her…uh…treatments.
|
|
D'Coke
Full Member
In the service of the Church of Darwinian Materialism
Posts: 106
|
Post by D'Coke on Mar 29, 2009 22:50:00 GMT -5
If CPS deems her unfit and takes her kids away, they'll have done it with the best interests of the children in mind, and not merely to antagonize the mother for making choices the court of public opinion doesn't agree with. They would also keep their investigations confidential, and not appear all over the media to slag Suleman for being a bad mother. Best interests. THAT explains the disparities between blacks and whites...They don't want any of these poor kids raised negro. The difference seems to be that the Duggars can afford to take care of their kids (as far as I know) and not in skin colour. Or in *basically* being a fit parent, religion aside. Unless you mean to yourself associate black people with not being able to raise kids properly, thus CPS would be disenfranchising (unfit) parents of a certain race. I mean to say the statement suggests that, since there's no reason to suggest race as a factor here.
|
|