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Post by fundierefugee on Apr 7, 2009 0:35:01 GMT -5
Which would be great if only GTA and a few other games were under attack. Other games are also under attack, using the same "insidious" claims you yourself used when talking about progression. After all, those of use who grew up on Super Mario and Tetris grew up to play Doom and GTA, so that must be the standard. Well I was under the impression he was going against "violent" video games, not so much that he went after Super Mario and Tetris. About all I know about the guy is that he was mostly right about the beltway sniper being a teenager who trained on video games. There was an adult involved who led him to do it but the kid no doubt was influenced by the video game, and I don't think the kid just was ready and eager to shoot real people overnight. I believe the game helped. So Thompson has at least that much credibility related directly to this particular issue. Well, it's fine to wonder, but that's hardly grounds to support people wh omake the claims with neither basis nor actual research. Well, I only voiced support for his cause, I haven't gone out of my way to support it in any other way, nor would I until I know more about it. But within the confines of an internet message forum I see no problem with voicing some support for the concept behind a guy's activism. Please don't argue things you don't know. Admiration of the crusade of a man on an issue you do not understand does not make sense. Why not? Not knowing about a topic doesn't stop any others in this message board from talking about those things. It might not make sense but that's what goes on in internet message forums. I'm rather curious. Do you think a man who got himself disbarred is likely to be the author of a reasonable argument? Not likely, but not unlikely, either. Lots of smart lawyers get disbarred for doing something wrong. It doesn't necessarily negate their ability to reason or fashion a well-thought-out argument, however. Generally, if someone is able to become a lawyer in the first place he is at least somewhat adept in logic and reason, and that doesn't change with being disbarred. No more than an accountant who is put in jail for fraud would lose his ability to be a good accountant. For that matter, Thompson himself has a habit of ad hom attacks. Had you even read the links already posted in this thread alone, you would see demonstrations of harassing techniques, bombastic and unrealistic statements, etc. Well if he has a problem with ad hom attacks then that doesn't bode well for his activism now, does it... So why is he such a threat to anyone if that's the case? Ibby's comment looks bad, until you include it in the context of the thread. Since this has all been demonstrated, there's no reason to believe he just hates the guy or just vehemently disagrees with it. At this point, the only one to blame for your lack of information is yourself. You might not know it from his post, but you should know it from before we even got to his post. I'm guessing "Ibby" is ironbite... I'm glad you admit his comment looks bad, that's what I was saying. In fact, I haven't so much been saying it "looks bad" as that it fails to provide the logic to counter Thompson's logic. He makes a claim that Thompson's argument is based on "flawed logic" and supports that claim with ad homs. Where's the logic in that? I accept responsibility for any lack of information on my part, but that doesn't change the fact that there is a lot of ad hom hurled around in here and it is taken for granted that it should be accepted by everyone blindly. If I am indeed ignorant of any flawed logic on the part of Thompson, and if said flawed logic is so obvious, then it should be easier to simply state what that flawed logic is than it would be to resort to ad hom's and expect me to accept that there is some flawed logic out there because of the ad hom's. It's like this... Three kids are talking. Billy says, "I know how cars work, there is a squirrel under the car and he pushes the car. I know this because squirrels move, and cars move." Obviously, Billy is using flawed logic. Jane says, "Well, maybe Billy's right, have we ever looked under the car to see if the squirrel is there that pushes it? ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) " Then Sally says, "Oh, don't listen to Billy, his logic is completely flawed." Jane says, "Oh, how so?" And Sally says, "Well first of all, Billy got in trouble with the teacher for not doing his homework. Then Billy got put in timeout by his mommy. And Billy also thought that spaghetti was WORMS!" So Sally never proves Billy's squirrel theory ITSELF wrong, she just tries to discredit Billy so that Jane will not listen to any of Billy's theories. The problem with that is, what if Billy's theory was not about a squirrel but about an engine, and Sally used the same ad hom argument against him, and Jane fell for it? There is a lot of ad hom thrown around on these boards but I guess it comes with the fact that there is just so much generalizing and stereotyping. I guess I can't expect much less from a board called FSTDT, itself based on an ad hom...
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Post by antichrist on Apr 7, 2009 0:41:57 GMT -5
Lets take a look at the list of things these people want to ban.
We've covered video games - GTA - Animal Crossing - Casino Royal game
Online gambling Abortion Gay Marriage Immoral Websites (definition was not included) Ford (although Ford backed down) McDonalds Junk Food Gay people using public washrooms (guess they'll have to wear pink triangles) Books Unisex washrooms Gay adoption Stem cell research Unmarried couple adoption HIV+ travelers Transgendered reassignment surgery Walt Disney Affirmative Action Planned Parenthood Birth Control TV shows considered immoral
And that's all I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure if I did some research, I'd be able to fill a page with it.
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Post by ironbite on Apr 7, 2009 0:44:46 GMT -5
.............................................................woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow.
Ironbite-where did you come from and how much fire do I need to burn it off the face of the earth?
Edit: Not you Antichrist but Fundieboy there. HOnestly...did you read my transexual friend's post or only what you want to read in it? He said my post does look bad....OUT OF CONTEXT. The fact that you believe he supports you just...........
Ironbite-truely scares me.
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Post by fundierefugee on Apr 7, 2009 0:45:27 GMT -5
I think that's a rather extreme view. I wouldn't put much stock into anyone who says that only pedophiles play video games. And I certainly don't believe for a second that banning GTA and even several other violent video games would lead to a "Christian version of Saudi Arabia". That's an overreaction, IMHO. I'm with you, I enjoy playing video games once in a while, but I have wondered about the effect they have not only on me, but more so on other people who might be more vulnerable than I am to desensitization. If I played as much as some people play, and kids in particular, who are impressionable, I wonder what effect it would have on me. Well then I would say your either extremely young and innocent, or you agree with them. Both ad homs, I'll point out... And by the way, I'm neither young and innocent nor do I necessarily agree with them. Where does it stop? He's argued about SIMS because you could see naked people in it (Barbie doll naked). I can't remember which game he complained about because some person created him as a character. Racing games cause people to speed, Big Game Hunter promotes violence and poaching. It goes on forever. I understand your point, and I realize that it can go on and that an argument can be made against virtually anything. But that's why it's important that someone speaks up in the first place. I don't agree with the concept that it is wrong to make things wrong because then you can take it too far. There has to be reasoning and reasonability. Should there be no law against mowing the lawn from 11 PM to 8AM because if you make that law, what's to stop it from being illegal to mow the lawn from 10 PM to 9 PM? Or 9PM to 10 AM?? What's to stop it from going as far as making it illegal to mow the lawn except during the hours of 11 AM to 1 PM on Wednesdays only??? What's to stop it is reason and reasonability. That's what limits any kind of imposition. So in the case of the "barbie doll naked" on the video game, that can be discussed and an agreement can be reached. His bringing it up and campaigning for his way doesn't mean he's going to get it. I'm not advocating that we all just drop our own thoughts and do what Thompson says. All I'm saying is that he raises interesting arguments that should be addressed and not ignored based on ad hom judgments. There's thread upon thread out there about how dancing is evil, music is evil, TV is evil. Well if you don't like it, don't watch. I don't play GTA, but I'm not going to stop anyone else from doing it. Then they'll ban UFC, which I also hate, and it will go on from there. Just because I don't like something does not mean I have the right to tell others how to live or how to enjoy their off time. There's people out there that hate my hobbies, I train dogs to be vicious killers (or that's what I've been told). No, I'm going to stand by my view that if we let these people have their way, we will eventually end up in a Christian Theocracy. Who cares what "thread after thread" says? Where is "out there" anyway?? All that proves is that extremists and hypocrites on both sides of the issues have too much time on their (our?) hands to be posting nonsense like that. The fact remains that when you look at our society, for as much as there are threads "out there", things pretty much move forward with little or no interruption. I'll stick by my view that we won't end up with a Christian theocracy. I haven't been wrong yet, whereas those who disagree with me have yet to be right (and it's not going to happen).
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Post by antichrist on Apr 7, 2009 0:49:49 GMT -5
You can't train to be a sniper with a video game any better than you can learn to drive with one. Sick people are sick, or did all these guy's train on video games too?So you put your support behind things before looking into them. Your the Republicans wet dream. [Citation needed] Well maybe you should do some research first You didn't read the rest of Amaranth's post did you. **hehe** he agrees with me, I'll stop reading now **hehe**
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Post by Einherjer on Apr 7, 2009 0:51:05 GMT -5
Actually, a lot of the problem with Jack Thompson is that his own attacks are based on false information, and that, to date, all of those attacks have been debunked. Despite them having been debunked, often numerous times each, he continues to use them.
For one such example, Thompson claims that violent video games create violent children, ignoring the fact that the people who act out violently are only a few while the non-violent people who play violent games are myriad in number. A more logical and reasonable explanation to the violence of people who play violent video games is that video games are pretty much ubiquitous; one finds it difficult nowadays to find a home without a video game console.
Even looking beyond that, a violent person will be drawn to violent media. If they cannot play a video game, they will watch movies or, if movies are not available (Thompson has also spoken out against violent movies, though to a lesser degree than video games), they will seek out violent art or other violent forms of media.
Most people have simply grown tired of Thompson's tirades against otherwise benign non-issues, and make attacks on him because he has for so long ignored evidence that goes against what he has been claiming while those arguing against him often go out of their ways to explain why his evidence is wrong.
Simply put, Thompson is so set in his ways that few people are willing to actually take the time to debate with him. It is unfortunate, yes, especially as this simply gives him reason to believe his own misinformation, but it is a simple fact that people who are reasonable will only spend a limited amount of time on something before they decide it is no longer worth their effort to continue. In regards to Thompson, people are simply no longer willing to waste their time on him when he is unwilling to even consider if he might, just might, be wrong.
Considering he has not yet been reasoned into silence, attempting to shout and attack him into silence is the only real recourse we have for dealing with him.
And no, ignoring him is not an option. If it were up to him, any video game or movie or other form of entertainment, art or media in general that showed any sort of violence at all would not be permitted. Getting into why this would be a very bad thing is beyond the scope of this thread, and perhaps beyond even myself to explain. There are far more skilled debaters out there who have already written extensively about this, and if you want to understand just why we are so loathsome of Jack Thompson, I would encourage you to Google about the topic a bit.
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Post by antichrist on Apr 7, 2009 0:58:32 GMT -5
Both ad homs, I'll point out... And by the way, I'm neither young and innocent nor do I necessarily agree with them. Got a word of the day calendar did you? was ad hom the word today? So what about the millions of people out there who play these games with absolutely no ill effect? Why should they be punished? And this isn't happening in places? Illegal to use anything but a push mower. No lawn blowers. Do some fucking research for once. ![](http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh21/madtabby66/LOLCats/Hyena.jpg)
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Post by antichrist on Apr 7, 2009 1:02:36 GMT -5
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Post by ironbite on Apr 7, 2009 1:06:17 GMT -5
All you chicks look the same with your "A"s in your names.
Ironbite-IT WEARS A 'RAPTOR OUT I TELLS YA!
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Post by antichrist on Apr 7, 2009 1:09:11 GMT -5
All you chicks look the same with your "A"s in your names. Ironbite-IT WEARS A 'RAPTOR OUT I TELLS YA! Because Antichrist is such a girly name.
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Post by ironbite on Apr 7, 2009 1:12:57 GMT -5
Depends on who you talk to btw.
Ironbite-course...I'm known to be quite insane.
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Post by fundierefugee on Apr 7, 2009 1:18:12 GMT -5
Both ad homs, I'll point out... And by the way, I'm neither young and innocent nor do I necessarily agree with them. Got a word of the day calendar did you? was ad hom the word today? I am saying the word a lot, because it's being used a lot by the likes of you. So what about the millions of people out there who play these games with absolutely no ill effect? Why should they be punished? Who says there's "absolutely no ill effect" ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) Have you researched it? I'd say there's probably no substantial ill effect, or even go as far as to say there's VIRTUALLY no ill effect, but ABSOLUTELY no ill effect? You're sure that there is ABSOLUTELY ZERO, none, nada, zip, zilch, NO ill effect??? I didn't realize I was dealing with the person who studied this and came up with conclusive results. Where can I see the empirical data and results of your research? And this isn't happening in places? Illegal to use anything but a push mower. No lawn blowers. Do some fucking research for once. Of course it's happening. It happens because there is a reason for it and there is also a limit to it. If they can use a push mower then they obviously didn't ban all mowers completely. And if they banned lawn blowers that doesn't mean they banned other methods of removing debris from lawns. You people are as bad as the gun nut wackos who say, "Durrr if they start controlling the guns they're gonna evenchally TAKE muh guns!!!!! Hayulll No!!!" Same extremist knee-jerk reaction but on the other side of the coin... [obnoxious gay ass photo deleted] Thanks for the well-thought-out intelligent rational um, response. Well you could start on the front page. The entire Bush administration, people who were funding the Bush administration, Focus on the Family, the Moral Majority, etc. So what? What do they control? Anything? They're a minority and they have big mouths, that's it. They have no real clout except as those "swing votes" on occasion. Kind of like their opponents. No, just like their opponents. So speaketh the wisdom of a fundie. So speaketh the ignorance of a fundie in denial.
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Post by ironbite on Apr 7, 2009 1:28:00 GMT -5
Wow................just.....woooooooooooooooooow.
Ironbite-you rail against the use of ad homs and then go and use some yourself....you are definitly a fundie.
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Post by antichrist on Apr 7, 2009 1:28:42 GMT -5
Unlike you with your Spock like logical responses.
Why does it only affect American kids? Have you seen the violent shit that comes out of Japan? Yet violence is almost nil compared to here.
Your argument was that banning mowing your lawn at night would go no further, I showed evidence that it does go further, you moved the goal posts. Cute, learned that from your pastor did you?
There's that Vulcan logic again.
World Governments, State Governements, etc. I gave you a couple of lists of Fundie watches. School boards saying that students can give religious answers to science questions. Yeah, no power at all.
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Post by fundierefugee on Apr 7, 2009 1:53:30 GMT -5
Unlike you with your Spock like logical responses. Dr. Spock was a doctor, so it's not unusual he used good logic, as I do. Why does it only affect American kids? Have you seen the violent shit that comes out of Japan? Yet violence is almost nil compared to here. Who said it only affects American kids? Where's your data on Japanese kids? And is it fucking possible to stop fucking saying shit like "shit" and "fucking" in your posts, or do you fucking have to say shit like that fucking shit in every fucking post and all the shit you write? Is that shit what you fucking say when you fucking talk to any fucker or say any shit whenever the fuck you say shit?? I'm just sayin.... Your argument was that banning mowing your lawn at night would go no further, I showed evidence that it does go further, you moved the goal posts. Cute, learned that from your pastor did you? Wrong. I never said it would absolutely never go any further, I said it would have limits. In some places the limits will be much stricter and in other places the limits will be a lot looser. You asserted (not "showed evidence", you didn't show any evidence but rather just simply made an assertion) that the limits are very strict in some places. So what's your point? I don't even know why Jack Thompson affects you anyway, you're not even an American. Why should you care what happens here? Worry about your own weird country. And regarding your presumption that I have a "pastor" - cute, learned that from your coven's high priestess did you?? There's that Vulcan logic again. What does an ancient Roman god have to do with logic? World Governments, State Governements, etc. I gave you a couple of lists of Fundie watches. School boards saying that students can give religious answers to science questions. Yeah, no power at all. You gave me some nonsense websites. "Fundie" watches, indeed. The fundies are on both ends, and each calls the other extremists but doesn't see it in themselves. Two sides of the same fundie coin - atheist/evangelical. It's like evolution/creation. It all amounts to fundie/fundie. I'm just waiting for Godwin's law of atheism to be invoked...
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