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Post by antichrist on Mar 29, 2009 22:44:43 GMT -5
I'm curious about this, because it seems that after the civil war a bunch of religions popped up. JW's, Mormons, 7th day Adventists, Spiritualists, etc. I know there's a bunch of history majors on here, so I was wondering if there's an answer to my question.
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Post by ozznova on Mar 29, 2009 22:53:37 GMT -5
A couple of those date before the Civil War Seriously though, what I assumed for that is because there was a whole lot of lonely prairie out there and going to meetin' or seeing a preacher ride through town was the closest thing to real entertainment the pioneers had.
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Post by DarkfireTaimatsu on Mar 29, 2009 22:54:52 GMT -5
Well, after the civil war, Iron Man became director of S.H.I.E.L.D., and--
Oh. The other civil war. The one I don't have books about. >_>
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Post by dasfuchs on Mar 30, 2009 3:38:36 GMT -5
A couple of those date before the Civil War Seriously though, what I assumed for that is because there was a whole lot of lonely prairie out there and going to meetin' or seeing a preacher ride through town was the closest thing to real entertainment the pioneers had. I'd say that's about most accurate. The open expansion and travelling great distances allowed for people to group in small communities to practice the faith they had, and over time it was twisted and changed, so what looks really different today most likely started out as fairly the same bs as the others that existed prior.
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Post by ostravan on Mar 30, 2009 4:59:11 GMT -5
A couple of those date before the Civil War Seriously though, what I assumed for that is because there was a whole lot of lonely prairie out there and going to meetin' or seeing a preacher ride through town was the closest thing to real entertainment the pioneers had. I'd say that's about most accurate. The open expansion and travelling great distances allowed for people to group in small communities to practice the faith they had, and over time it was twisted and changed, so what looks really different today most likely started out as fairly the same bs as the others that existed prior. The paths to hell are paved with good intentions. (Old Arabian saying)
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Post by skyfire on Mar 30, 2009 8:41:57 GMT -5
I'm curious about this, because it seems that after the civil war a bunch of religions popped up. JW's, Mormons, 7th day Adventists, Spiritualists, etc. I know there's a bunch of history majors on here, so I was wondering if there's an answer to my question. Your time-line is off. For example, the LDS faith (Mormons) were officially incorporated as a religion ca. 1830 and the JWs didn't come into existence until the early 1900s. It is indeed true that many people began to move West after the war, but this movement was already underway before the fighting started. In fact, the Mormons had been in Utah 15 - 20 years before the war broke out and had established colonies up in Canada and Mexico in addition to throughout the Rockies; Salt Lake City was actually a major resupply route for people heading west in the 1850s and 60s, and the Trans-Continental Railroad ran north of Ogden. Rather, the war accelerated the flow of people westward, as many ended up losing everything in the war (especially those who fought for the Confederacy) and going west was seen as a way to start over, especially since you could easily create an alias for yourself and no one would know. These people brought religion with them as they traveled, which is why you even had circuit preachers in the first place.
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Post by mnstrm on Mar 30, 2009 10:40:21 GMT -5
I know you're a stickler for accuracy, Skyfire. Mormon colonies were in fact not established in Canada before the civil war broke out, as your post seems to state. Though mormon missionaries did travel in what was then called Upper Canada and recruit new members during Smith's time, those new members generally left their homes and moved to "zion".
The first actual mormon colony in Canada, Cardston, was established by Charles Card in Alberta in 1887, well after the civil war.
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Post by captainhooker on Mar 30, 2009 11:16:13 GMT -5
I'd say your timing is a bit off.
The Second Great awakening is credited as ending around 1840 though it continued to a lesser extent up until the Civil War, and is the period during which many of the mainstream religions of the US gained their current footing and many new ones sprang up.
It was mostly a product of industrialization and to some extent urbanization of American society - the increase of "vices" like drinking and prostitution, the argument over slavery, and the increasing need for prisons.
Religion and evangelism grew in response to the "evils" of an advancing modern industrial civilization.
Religion always pops up as a supposed cure for any nation's "growing pains."
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Post by antichrist on Mar 30, 2009 13:06:25 GMT -5
I'd say your timing is a bit off. The Second Great awakening is credited as ending around 1840 though it continued to a lesser extent up until the Civil War, and is the period during which many of the mainstream religions of the US gained their current footing and many new ones sprang up. It was mostly a product of industrialization and to some extent urbanization of American society - the increase of "vices" like drinking and prostitution, the argument over slavery, and the increasing need for prisons. Religion and evangelism grew in response to the "evils" of an advancing modern industrial civilization. Religion always pops up as a supposed cure for any nation's "growing pains." Thanks, this is more what I was looking for. I had been told before that it was because of the civil war, but if it began earlier, maybe they just had similar reasons for starting. As far as the grand prairie, didn't most of these start in Eastern states that were already 'civilized'? And if people were looking for answers, why didn't they just go to the churches of their parents? Why did they start up new religions?
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Post by skyfire on Mar 30, 2009 13:30:50 GMT -5
As far as the grand prairie, didn't most of these start in Eastern states that were already 'civilized'? And if people were looking for answers, why didn't they just go to the churches of their parents? Why did they start up new religions? Same reason why we had things like Protestantism breaking away from Catholicism and why some Protestant groups schismed. Read into the histories of those groups (the average high school history textbook should talk about the bigger ones) and you'll see that they all started when someone felt convinced that the existing religious systems just weren't cutting it. The founders then began to convert people around them, and in time folks dissatisfied with their current belief systems soon followed. In fact, LDS history records that on occasion there'd be an entire congregation converting, sometimes with the preacher as well.
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Post by mnstrm on Mar 30, 2009 13:58:15 GMT -5
Really? Where are these congregations and preachers named? I'd be interested in seeing those records.
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Post by dantesvirgil on Mar 30, 2009 16:54:19 GMT -5
Actually, Skyfire (and everybody else), the term "JWs" comes from the 1930s when they decided to rename themselves; but the religion itself started in the 1870s and was called several things like International Bible Students, Russelites, etc. But they were around right after the Civil War.
All the things Captain Hooker said applied to them as well. But I would also add that war tends to intensify evangelical spirit; people tended (then, especially) to turn more towards Church as a way of coping with loss of life they'd just experienced and with the problems of that time, which were great.
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Post by skyfire on Mar 30, 2009 20:00:32 GMT -5
Really? Where are these congregations and preachers named? I'd be interested in seeing those records. One of the biggies was Sidney Rigdon himself, who was an ordained Campbellite minister at the time he joined the church; Rigdon ended up taking hundreds of former congregation members with him (he'd ministered over multiple congregations in his career). Rigdon was preceded in joining the church by a several other people who would go on to be early leaders, including Parley Pratt. For the rest, I'll have to go look them up. I recall where they came from (New England in the church's early days, then the UK - primarily Scotland - during the rest of the 1800s) but not anything beyond that.
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Post by mnstrm on Mar 30, 2009 20:16:02 GMT -5
Sure, I can wait. Don't forget to provide a contemporary record of Sidney Rigdon taking "hundreds of former congregation members" with him as well. Thanks Skyfire.
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Post by skyfire on Mar 30, 2009 20:19:28 GMT -5
Sure, I can wait. Don't forget to provide a contemporary record of Sidney Rigdon taking "hundreds of former congregation members" with him as well. Thanks Skyfire. For Rigdon, it's as simple as viewing his Wiki article.For the others, I'll have to go back through the church history books I've got in the house to see if that's where I got it from; it's been a while since I last heard it.
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