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Post by stormwarden on Apr 5, 2009 14:06:54 GMT -5
Off-topic: Cagnozzo, nice Yukiko avatar. Glad to see I am not the only Persona 4 player here. I preferred Chie myself, at least for my first cycle. Plan to grab Rise next time.
On-topic: To me, this is what happens when people let a bunch of talking heads form our opinions for us. When we let a party, ANY party foster a moral panic, things like this happen. What angers me more is that as a nation, the US allowed it to happen at all. Fear is, sadly, still an all-too-potent weapon for the pundits to use...
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Post by Thejebusfire on Apr 5, 2009 14:10:16 GMT -5
I do believe in the right to bear arms, but I don't believe that any old backwards, inbred, asshat can go out and buy a gun.
Being young I'm a bit naive when it comes to politics, but last time I checked Obama isn't going to abolish guns.
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nuitarihw
Junior Member
What's holding up is a mirror
Posts: 90
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Post by nuitarihw on Apr 5, 2009 14:10:58 GMT -5
You are willfully ignorant, aren't you? The whole reason there is a "panic" amongst the right wing gun nuts is because the GOP FOSTERED that panic. The Dems are no more "anti-gun" then the GOP, they're just more vocal about it, and the GOP uses it, (like 9/11, WMD's in Iraq, national security and so on) to ramp up the fear amongst supporters. You really are a mindless twit, aren't you? Many Democrats support common sense gun control laws, and many Republicans oppose even the most obviously sane of them. When I had done reports years and years ago about gun control, I remember reading the NRA (or some pro-gun group) even opposed a law that would require all gun manufacturers to have safeties on all of their guns. Seriously, fucking fighting against safeties, wtf.
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Post by JonathanE on Apr 5, 2009 15:08:00 GMT -5
The Dems are no more "anti-gun" then the GOP, they're just more vocal about it Ok, this part, at least, is just flat-out wrong. The democratic voters are by far more in favor of stricter gun laws according to this 2004 Harris poll. 71% of democrats favor more strict laws, 11% less. The Republicans were split 35/35. I recognize you're not talking about the voters, so I started pulling up data on bills. The Brady Bill, for example, can be found here. The democrats were split 47/8 for/against, while republicants were 16/28 for/against (there was a democratic abstention). More recently, when voting on a bill to prohibit police confiscation of firearms in a disaster, Republicans voted in favor 55/0, while Democrats split 28/16. Even if the GOP fostered the panic, they're nowhere near as anti-gun as the democrats. No, it's not entirely a partisan issue, but it's pretty clearly got a pretty strong correlation. Before you call someone a willfully ignorant mindless twit, at least have the courtesy to back up your assertions with evidence. Gun "control" legislation is not "anti-gun" legislation. This is what I referred to. That being the case, there has not been much real anti-gun legislation, unless you count the ban on automatic weapons sales. That is what I referred to. Gun control does not equal anti-gun, unless you are a rabid Republican, willfully ignorant, mindless fuckwit. Thanks for allowing me to clarify my statement.
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Post by schizophonic on Apr 5, 2009 15:09:15 GMT -5
The DNC has gotten itself a reputation as the party of gun "control," which some people interpret to mean slowly trying to deprive the citizenry of their right to be armed. Hence, the panic now that you've a Democratic president and Democratic domination in Congress. The article implies that the guy was already mental to begin with. Add to it severe paranoia and the stress from getting fired, and you've got a recipe for disaster. I, personally, wonder if the guy was on drugs or something else tho. That might have been the final spark to make him do this. Good thing that reputation was largely acheived through fear spread by the opposition. They tried to pull it on Howard Dean, too. Of course, Vermont is a totally anti-gun state, right?
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Post by dasfuchs on Apr 5, 2009 16:47:43 GMT -5
the Democrats certainly have the rep of being anti gun, though the republicans are no less to blame by using that as a fear issue whenever the chance arises. I'd say this guy was a bit nutty to start with, so logic and reasoning go out the window.
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Post by booley on Apr 5, 2009 16:58:05 GMT -5
The DNC has gotten itself a reputation as the party of gun "control," which some people interpret to mean slowly trying to deprive the citizenry of their right to be armed. Hence, the panic now that you've a Democratic president and Democratic domination in Congress...... And is it possible maybe that part of the reason (even a large part) for that "perception" are cons who keep saying , implicitly or explicitly, that Democrats and/or Liberals ARE going to take everyone's guns away and ANY regulation is a secret plan to do so? Sorta like telling a schizophrenic that "Yeah, the CIA really does bug people's teeth." I mean the Democrats are also know for instituting regulations on cars like seat belts and better fuel emissions. But who is is going around saying that cars will soon be banned?
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Post by devilschaplain2 on Apr 5, 2009 17:04:22 GMT -5
Well, booley, darling of course they do!
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Post by booley on Apr 5, 2009 17:26:51 GMT -5
Well, booley, darling of course they do! I know I should argue but your Lucielle Ball Sways me.
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Post by ltfred on Apr 5, 2009 18:21:05 GMT -5
Could we charge people for this now?
Anne Coulter or whoever tells people to go out and kill liberals, some go out and kill liberals. Why does that not count as incitement?
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Post by canadian mojo on Apr 5, 2009 18:29:43 GMT -5
The DNC has gotten itself a reputation as the party of gun "control," which some people interpret to mean slowly trying to deprive the citizenry of their right to be armed. Hence, the panic now that you've a Democratic president and Democratic domination in Congress...... And is it possible maybe that part of the reason (even a large part) for that "perception" are cons who keep saying , implicitly or explicitly, that Democrats and/or Liberals ARE going to take everyone's guns away and ANY regulation is a secret plan to do so? Sorta like telling a schizophrenic that "Yeah, the CIA really does bug people's teeth." I mean the Democrats are also know for instituting regulations on cars like seat belts and better fuel emissions. But who is is going around saying that cars will soon be banned? As an outsider who really only gets to hear the pundits, I have to admit that it is not an unreasonable assumption that the democrats are out to get your guns. It is all you tend to hear, and there are some horror stories out there (how true they are is another matter). The thing is I don't get to vote in your elections, so I don't really need to educate myself. Unfortunately, a lot of people who do vote in your elections don't feel the need to educate themselves either.
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Post by canadian mojo on Apr 5, 2009 18:35:21 GMT -5
Could we charge people for this now? Anne Coulter or whoever tells people to go out and kill liberals, some go out and kill liberals. Why does that not count as incitement? Simple answer from a legal standpoint: who set buddy off? Unless he names someone as his trigger, you can't prove a link. Even if there is a directly named link, you'll get all sorts of freedom of speech, etc. arguements.
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Post by JonathanE on Apr 5, 2009 18:37:34 GMT -5
The DNC has gotten itself a reputation as the party of gun "control," which some people interpret to mean slowly trying to deprive the citizenry of their right to be armed. Hence, the panic now that you've a Democratic president and Democratic domination in Congress...... And is it possible maybe that part of the reason (even a large part) for that "perception" are cons who keep saying , implicitly or explicitly, that Democrats and/or Liberals ARE going to take everyone's guns away and ANY regulation is a secret plan to do so? Sorta like telling a schizophrenic that "Yeah, the CIA really does bug people's teeth." I mean the Democrats are also know for instituting regulations on cars like seat belts and better fuel emissions. But who is is going around saying that cars will soon be banned? Thank you, booley.
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Post by devilschaplain2 on Apr 5, 2009 19:22:55 GMT -5
Could we charge people for this now? Anne Coulter or whoever tells people to go out and kill liberals, some go out and kill liberals. Why does that not count as incitement? Ann Coulter's statements about wanting Supreme Court Justices to die or her saying she was disappointed that Timothy McVeigh didn't bomb the New York Times isn't incitement. None of her comments add up to incitement. See Brandenburg v. Ohio for details. ;D
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Post by skyfire on Apr 5, 2009 19:52:07 GMT -5
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