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Post by erictheblue on Apr 13, 2009 6:37:13 GMT -5
I've had people argue with me that students should have the right to pray in school if they want to. I've always loved the shirts/bumper stickers/etc that say "As long as there are tests, there will be prayer in schools."
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Post by Star Cluster on Apr 13, 2009 8:37:19 GMT -5
For all the talk about God being kicked out of schools, I've never seen it. Hell, we had a prayer group at my public high school, and we were never bothered. The right has done a great job of convincing people that prayer is actually banned in public schools in all of its forms. I've had people argue with me that students should have the right to pray in school if they want to. It is endlessly frustrating to have to explain to them that this is a right they actually have. Lying for Jesus is wrong. Yeah, this. There can be any number of "faith-based" organizations in schools in the US, so long as they meet outside of regular instructional class time. Are the fundies pretending that clubs such as FCA (Fellowship of Christian Athletes) doesn't exist on practically every public high school in the country? Students are free to organize Bible study clubs and have prayer groups. And students are free to say a silent prayer any time they want. The only thing that can't happen is that teachers or students can't lead a prayer or preach the Bible during class time. And even the Bible can be talked about if it is part of a general course on religions and/or social studies. At least, this is the way I understand it. If I'm wrong, perhaps Sandman or one of the other teachers here can correct me..
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Post by the sandman on Apr 13, 2009 10:52:05 GMT -5
The only restriction is that a school funded by public dollars can not support or sanction an activity or group with a stated, specific religious agenda.
That means no school-sponsored prayer groups, but if you want to organize, fund, and conduct it on your own, that's your free-speech right. That means no announcer giving a prayer over the (school funded) loudspeaker at the (school funded) football game, but if you would like to get together with your friends in the stands and raise some praise, you are more than welcome to. That means that the school can provide no funding for an FCA chapter, but if the FCA chapter fills out the paper work and complies with all the rules for public-use access to the facilities, then you're good to go.
Al lot of schools sponsor Boy and Girl Scout (except in those states where the BSA & GSA have gotten into hot water over gay discrimination) troops because, even though these organizations do have a foundation of religion, the organizations have been very skillfully crafted, and their materials very skillfully worded, so that there is no specific religious agenda. (Yes, you can earn a merit badge in Evolution, and service medals for every faith from Baptist to Hindu to Islam to Mormon.)
The litmus test is: No school classified as "public" or that recieves public funding beyond Section 1 Assistance may deliberately support with funds, facilities, or faculty (those are the famous "3 F's") any organization or event with a specific, stated religious agenda, unless that organization or event fulfils all obligations for public free-use access of school facilities, including filling out all paperwork, complying with all local ordanances, and paying all associated useage or access fees.
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Post by Vene on Apr 13, 2009 11:19:17 GMT -5
For all the talk about God being kicked out of schools, I've never seen it. Hell, we had a prayer group at my public high school, and we were never bothered. The right has done a great job of convincing people that prayer is actually banned in public schools in all of its forms. I've had people argue with me that students should have the right to pray in school if they want to. It is endlessly frustrating to have to explain to them that this is a right they actually have. Lying for Jesus is wrong. My old high school rents out space to a church.
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Post by Green-Eyed Lilo on Apr 13, 2009 11:39:05 GMT -5
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Post by devilschaplain2 on Apr 13, 2009 11:45:44 GMT -5
I'm glad you said that, because if you didn't, then I would've had to. The Boy Scouts are in bed with the religious right, and actively discriminate against gays and atheists--plus, they don't even sell cookies! The Girl Scouts don't discriminate, and they have fuckin' Thin Mints. You decide which organization you'd rather support ^_^
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Post by wackadoodle on Apr 13, 2009 12:00:35 GMT -5
At my current school the halls are plastered with flyers for some bible fellowship. I guess someone must be putting these up every morning to defy the evoathiestspirators tearing them down. My first public school they made us pray at every pep rally, on every holiday, with the coach before every football game and god knows what else. You know that retarded chain letter about the whiny strawathiest who wants a holiday being told they have april fools day? I had teachers reading that and other related propaganda to us regularly. This school was also a complete shithole that was a joke academically and hadn't done well in any sport for decades. Its graduates were known only for being methheads, rednecks and general morons. But I guess we just didn't pray right, the only other explanation is these people are talking out of their ass and the amount of religion crammed down student's throats has no effect on their education.
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Post by peanutfan on Apr 13, 2009 13:18:56 GMT -5
They had a student-led prayer at my graduation.
I admit that I was too afraid of being "different" to take a stand and walk out like I should have.
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Post by devilschaplain2 on Apr 13, 2009 14:18:00 GMT -5
They had a student-led prayer at my graduation. I admit that I was too afraid of being "different" to take a stand and walk out like I should have. That would probably be held as unconstitutional under Lee v. Weisman (1992). en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_v._Weisman
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Post by wackadoodle on Apr 13, 2009 14:27:35 GMT -5
I personally think it would help a great deal if schools worked harder at stopping bullying. Oddly enough, that seems to make the fundies go batshit insane too. Its wrong to bully straight white protestants. Everyone else was just asking for it and their ludicrous demand for a special right to not get their ass kicked is infringing upon our freedom to treat them like shit.
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Post by devilschaplain2 on Apr 13, 2009 14:34:49 GMT -5
I personally think it would help a great deal if schools worked harder at stopping bullying. Oddly enough, that seems to make the fundies go batshit insane too. Its wrong to bully straight white protestants. Everyone else was just asking for it and their ludicrous demand for a special right to not get their ass kicked is infringing upon our freedom to treat them like shit. You see that type of attitude especially with regards to sexual orientation. The Christians don't like that gay clubs are allowed in schools, and they complain that they can't have school-funded religious clubs (which are unconstitutional). They complain that people can be kicked out for wearing shirts that say " Got AIDS Yet?" but gay students can wear pro-gay messages (one is bigotry and the other is a benign social message). They hate the National Day of Silence because they think the school is helping to "normalize" a "perversion" and demand that schools stop participating (when it is perfectly acceptable for all fundamentalist Christian students to similarly shut up for a day as well). What a pain....
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Post by Vene on Apr 13, 2009 14:39:56 GMT -5
I wish fundamentalists would shut up for a day.
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Post by xaria on Apr 13, 2009 14:43:29 GMT -5
ironic that i should spot this thread blaming school shootings on a lack of prayer just after i find out that on of youtubes 'louder' christian fundies shot and killed a girl at school, then himself. www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCX8x8zcSnE
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Post by antichrist on Apr 13, 2009 14:57:32 GMT -5
I personally think it would help a great deal if schools worked harder at stopping bullying. Oddly enough, that seems to make the fundies go batshit insane too. Its wrong to bully straight white protestants. Everyone else was just asking for it and their ludicrous demand for a special right to not get their ass kicked is infringing upon our freedom to treat them like shit. Uh..... I was bullied by a black girl. One day I finally snapped in gym and took a field hockey stick and smacked her over the head with it. I was told I needed to understand her situation, I needed more tolerance, I needed to be suspended. When I got back the next week the bullying escalated. But I was the one who should just suck it up and take it since I couldn't understand.
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Post by peanutfan on Apr 13, 2009 15:38:42 GMT -5
They had a student-led prayer at my graduation. I admit that I was too afraid of being "different" to take a stand and walk out like I should have. That would probably be held as unconstitutional under Lee v. Weisman (1992). en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_v._WeismanAnd fundies have cared about the Constitution since...when?
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