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Post by scotsgit on Dec 7, 2010 12:45:29 GMT -5
I am sad you didn't mention the Bellamy Salute that went with the Pledge. lol The what salute?
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Post by scotsgit on Dec 7, 2010 12:49:10 GMT -5
Out of interest, but do you (in the US) have to take this 'pledge of Allegiance'? If so, why?
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Post by Kit Walker on Dec 7, 2010 14:35:41 GMT -5
Out of interest, but do you (in the US) have to take this 'pledge of Allegiance'? If so, why? It tends to be something done rather rarely after about second grade and is more of a...prayer or devotional if you will. Not actually something you legally need to pledge. I pledge allegiance, to the flag, of the United States of America, and to the republic, for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible*, with liberty and justice for all. *for some reason, my natural inclination is to switch out the next line line with "forever and ever, amen". No idea why. BTW, this is the bellamy salute. It fell from favor in the 40's or so. I don't know why.
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Post by scotsgit on Dec 7, 2010 14:44:20 GMT -5
Obvious why it fell out of favour: They all look like they want to go to the toilet!
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Post by scotsgit on Dec 7, 2010 14:45:01 GMT -5
So why do all the fundies get upset about this pledge thing then?
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Post by Kit Walker on Dec 7, 2010 14:54:29 GMT -5
So why do all the fundies get upset about this pledge thing then? 1) Because it is a display of patriotism! It doesn't matter how meaningless a display it is. These are the people who got snippy about American flag lapel pins. It wasn't even officially adopted until 1942, fifty years after it was written. 2) Because there have been recent attempts to remove the words "under God" from it, which is bad because America is a Christian nation and those words have always been there. Always in this case means "as long as I've been saying it", as they weren't added until 1954 or 62 years after it was written. Speaking of, it was written by a prominent Socialist. Who was also a Baptist minister. So there is some delicious irony in fundies loving it. Another Bellamy salute pic:
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Post by Shane for Wax on Dec 7, 2010 14:58:45 GMT -5
Yeah, the Bellamy Salute. A not well-known thing to most people these days. Probably because it looks like a 'Hitler salute'. But eh... y'know how these things go.
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Post by scotsgit on Dec 7, 2010 19:07:34 GMT -5
So if I'd been at an American school, would it have been OK for me to swear allegiance to the British flag?
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Post by Shane for Wax on Dec 7, 2010 20:53:40 GMT -5
Probably not.
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Post by Kit Walker on Dec 7, 2010 21:58:27 GMT -5
So if I'd been at an American school, would it have been OK for me to swear allegiance to the British flag? Doubtful. But you would have had the option to sit out the pledge.
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Post by Vene on Dec 7, 2010 22:08:09 GMT -5
So if I'd been at an American school, would it have been OK for me to swear allegiance to the British flag? Doubtful. But you would have had the option to sit out the pledge. Unless you don't, in some places it's mandatory. Really, the US is not a single culture with one set of rules.
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Post by scotsgit on Dec 8, 2010 6:01:03 GMT -5
Doubtful. But you would have had the option to sit out the pledge. Unless you don't, in some places it's mandatory. Really, the US is not a single culture with one set of rules. Very few countries are. I only ask because a couple of friends did live in the US and were pretty much berated for not doing this pledge thing. Now, both are British and quite patriotic, yet both teachers and pupils would verbally (and sometimes physically) attack them for not wanting to swear allegiance to an American flag.
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Post by Distind on Dec 8, 2010 8:10:46 GMT -5
Very few countries are. I only ask because a couple of friends did live in the US and were pretty much berated for not doing this pledge thing. Now, both are British and quite patriotic, yet both teachers and pupils would verbally (and sometimes physically) attack them for not wanting to swear allegiance to an American flag. I don't believe they're legally required to (what's the point of being legally required to pledge your allegiance to a free country again?), but there are plenty of complete fucking morons out there who think it's the end all of being American. I stopped saying it around 6th grade because I failed to see the point. The flag didn't care, I didn't care, teacher was annoyed, I believe I was sent to the office for asking her to get the flag's opinion on the issue. But that was more being a complete pain in the ass than anything else.
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Post by Ranger Joe on Dec 31, 2010 11:09:37 GMT -5
I never said the pledge in High school. I always just sat there quietly. During my Senior year, I was called out by my teacher, telling me that I needed to be patriotic and respect the flag. I advised the teacher that my enlistment paperwork was already completed and whether or not he intended to serve his country. I also said that my patriotism could not be measured by my unwillingness to mindlessly drone out a few words every morning. The pledge is pretty damned stupid, IMHO.
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Post by Sleepy on Dec 31, 2010 11:34:47 GMT -5
I stopped saying the pledge in high school. At first I would simply stand silently when we were asked to say it, but eventually I remained seated through the entire thing. The teacher was too nice to pester me about it, really. Why should I mindlessly recite such a thing?
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