|
Post by kristine on Mar 3, 2011 21:23:39 GMT -5
The placebo effect - cool 8)
How can we be sure some of the drug trials are NOT the placebo effect then?
|
|
|
Post by Napoleon the Clown on Mar 3, 2011 22:19:30 GMT -5
Because they have people who take a placebo in addition to people who take the real thing. It's called proper controls.
|
|
|
Post by Cygnus on Mar 3, 2011 23:59:55 GMT -5
Well, you can also end up with a nocebo effect in some cases (in which the placebo actually makes you worse), so there are some drawbacks to using placebos.
|
|
|
Post by Amaranth on Mar 6, 2011 11:37:38 GMT -5
The placebo effect - cool 8) How can we be sure some of the drug trials are NOT the placebo effect then? Same way I can be sure someone has thought of that already. Any honest study is going to include controls, which should weed out the placebo effect. Any dishonest study is likely to cook the books anyway, and unlikely to rely on the throw of the dice that is the placebo effect.
|
|
|
Post by Vene on Mar 6, 2011 12:10:48 GMT -5
What I love is that the placebo effect is still in effect when the patient knows full well that it is a placebo.
|
|
|
Post by Vene on Mar 6, 2011 12:11:10 GMT -5
Because they have people who take a placebo in addition to people who take the real thing. It's called proper controls. Double blind for the win.
|
|
|
Post by itachirumon on Mar 7, 2011 23:34:20 GMT -5
Well, you can also end up with a nocebo effect in some cases (in which the placebo actually makes you worse), so there are some drawbacks to using placebos. I came when I saw the placebo effect to mention the nocebo, it's fantastically nutty. What my Psych 2 (Exp Psych) professor explained it as was like... So you tell them that you're still trying to get their pain killers right now and they can't have any yet but you'll give them some antibiotic while injecting them with a pain killer (he made it clear it HAD to be an injection or pills for nocebo to work) then telling them to rate their pain. Then you come back later after 15-30 minutes and ask them to rate their pain and even though they're given pain killers, they still report the same level of pain. I know, it's reallly...REALLY bizzare.
|
|
|
Post by Mlle Antéchrist on Mar 8, 2011 12:13:24 GMT -5
Because they have people who take a placebo in addition to people who take the real thing. It's called proper controls. Double blind for the win. I was just about to post that, word for word. Get out of my head! As for the question in the OP, and elaborating on the double blind thing: In addition to not informing the patient of whether or not they're getting the real meds or the placebos, the doctors, laboratory techs, and other health care workers directly involved are not informed of who has what, to prevent bias on their part as well. Those who do know that info can't be directly involved or have contact with the patients during the trial. It's not perfect, but it's the best method we have to combat contaminated data.
|
|
|
Post by kristine on Mar 17, 2011 1:22:53 GMT -5
Double blind for the win. I was just about to post that, word for word. Get out of my head! As for the question in the OP, and elaborating on the double blind thing: In addition to not informing the patient of whether or not they're getting the real meds or the placebos, the doctors, laboratory techs, and other health care workers directly involved are not informed of who has what, to prevent bias on their part as well. Those who do know that info can't be directly involved or have contact with the patients during the trial. It's not perfect, but it's the best method we have to combat contaminated data. I just wonder what stops someone from having the effect just because they know they are IN a trial?
|
|
|
Post by Vene on Mar 17, 2011 10:01:07 GMT -5
I was just about to post that, word for word. Get out of my head! As for the question in the OP, and elaborating on the double blind thing: In addition to not informing the patient of whether or not they're getting the real meds or the placebos, the doctors, laboratory techs, and other health care workers directly involved are not informed of who has what, to prevent bias on their part as well. Those who do know that info can't be directly involved or have contact with the patients during the trial. It's not perfect, but it's the best method we have to combat contaminated data. I just wonder what stops someone from having the effect just because they know they are IN a trial? It doesn't, but that has nothing to do with what double blind does. You give people placebos on purpose and other people real meds. You use the placebos as a control and if the real meds don't perform better, then the real meds aren't real meds. Oh, and the difference has to be statistically meaningful, that way random chance has less influence. To put it a different way, the placebo effect is used to establish a baseline, if your drug doesn't perform better than the baseline, it's worthless.
|
|
|
Post by MaybeNever on Mar 17, 2011 12:15:37 GMT -5
Placebos can also be used to establish a bass line, although this is a bit more difficult.
|
|
|
Post by Amaranth on Mar 17, 2011 13:06:19 GMT -5
Placebos can also be used to establish a bass line, although this is a bit more difficult. I think you mean "base" line, unless we're jammin'. Or having fish for dinner.
|
|
|
Post by MaybeNever on Mar 17, 2011 13:24:27 GMT -5
Yes, that was the joke.
|
|
|
Post by Sleepy on Mar 17, 2011 13:30:33 GMT -5
He's the master of horrible puns.
|
|
|
Post by SimSim on Mar 17, 2011 14:37:01 GMT -5
Nah, disgruntledcolonel has him beat on the horrible puns, but MN comes in a close second.
|
|