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Post by Mlle Antéchrist on Mar 24, 2011 2:48:31 GMT -5
That's another thing that always bothered me: People taking satisfaction in the idea of someone being tortured for eternity. Even when it comes to the worst of the worst -- murderers, rapists, child molesters/killers, etc. -- when I really think about it, I wouldn't want them to be tortured for eternity. Obviously, there's a part of me that would love to inflict pain onto those people and I do understand the drive to seek revenge against these sickos -- I'm human like everyone else, complete with the occasional violent thoughts and impulses -- but I just can't take any pleasure in the idea of any sentient creature being tortured forever, without end, going on and on and on and on. After a billion years of torture, they'd still have eternity ahead of them. Infinite punishment for a finite crime -- no matter how horrible -- goes way beyond an eye for an eye. Hell, it goes beyond overkill, too. It's infinitely worse than the most horrific thing any human being can do.
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Post by Cygnus on Mar 24, 2011 9:35:42 GMT -5
I don't think many people really comprehend the idea of eternal life or eternal torture. They may sound like appealing ideas at first, until you actual think about it for while. I mean, it's never going to end. I think that's the part that most people don't get. They hear "eternal" and think of a really long time, not really grasping the concept of infinity.
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Post by Meshakhad on Mar 24, 2011 14:30:47 GMT -5
What you wondered isn't far off from Jewish theology. Everyone goes to Gehenna, where they suffer for their sins for a period of their time, and then go to heaven. Really? I was secretly Jewish, then...DON'T TELL MY MOM. Any time I write stories that involve an afterlife anymore, they tend to involve something vaguely similar (I'll have to look up Gehenna to make sure I'm not off in LaLa Land)...except the punishments are given by those who were wronged, after their own lives have ended and, basically, the "results are in". Demons and so-called 'angels' are allowed to reincarnate and live out just lives as partial penance for the crimes they committed for the God of Dying, though that rarely works out. The Council are dickholes. I think one thing that bothered me about the idea of Hell as much as why God couldn't simply cleanse the souls was why God himself was the one who punished people. I mean, he always acted like any sins committed were against HIM PERSONALLY, and not just in a "oh you're my children" kinda way, but in a "bitch you make me mad" way. It's like...he's supposed to be just and merciful, but he's a jealous, easily offended bitch (by the interpretations I was raised with, anyway). There isn't much information on Gehenna. We do know that the torments are spiritual, not physical. I could see this as being forced to see all the harm that came from your sins. Oh, and the bacon thing only applies to actual Jews. If you're not Jewish, you aren't obligated.
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Post by MaybeNever on Mar 24, 2011 14:59:48 GMT -5
Wait, Jewish theology allows non-Jews to enter the post-game paradise?
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Post by Meshakhad on Mar 24, 2011 15:21:51 GMT -5
Wait, Jewish theology allows non-Jews to enter the post-game paradise? They ALL do. So, with that in mind, can we expect to have an FSTDT reunion in the World to Come? I'll bring the manna!
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Post by DeadpanDoubter on Mar 24, 2011 15:44:54 GMT -5
Whoo! I'll bring the bacon! ...wait, is bacon allowed in Heaven? >: And if non-Jews can eat it, then what is/are the reason(s) that Jews can't? All I've ever heard was it's 'unclean', but never really why... RadiationTemporary: I think I was raised listening to all three of those types...and I was certainly Tammy, myself, at one point. Good thing I got over it before I moved in with a Wiccan. >.>
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Post by Meshakhad on Mar 24, 2011 16:59:05 GMT -5
Whoo! I'll bring the bacon! ...wait, is bacon allowed in Heaven? >: And if non-Jews can eat it, then what is/are the reason(s) that Jews can't? All I've ever heard was it's 'unclean', but never really why... RadiationTemporary: I think I was raised listening to all three of those types...and I was certainly Tammy, myself, at one point. Good thing I got over it before I moved in with a Wiccan. >.> There's no clear answer on the bacon issue. But I think in heaven, we'll all eat manna, which tastes exactly like whatever the hell we want it to taste like.
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Post by MaybeNever on Mar 24, 2011 20:38:00 GMT -5
Whoo! I'll bring the bacon! ...wait, is bacon allowed in Heaven? >: And if non-Jews can eat it, then what is/are the reason(s) that Jews can't? All I've ever heard was it's 'unclean', but never really why... For a non-theological answer to the pork question, even today it's a meat that's a major culprit in some illnesses and parasitic infections (primarily tapeworm). As you might imagine, the folks three thousand years ago in the early days of Judaism would've been even less capable of preventing or treating these, so a prohibition altogether makes some sense. Shellfish is another prohibited food with similar problems.
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Post by DeadpanDoubter on Mar 24, 2011 21:14:38 GMT -5
I've heard similar...but are there really that many more issues with pork and shellfish than beef and goat meat? Or chicken? Or turkey? Or deer? (they totally had deer and turkey in the Middle East, right?) Rather, are they that much more susceptible to worms and stuff than other food animals?
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Post by MaybeNever on Mar 24, 2011 21:23:01 GMT -5
Turkey's a New World bird, so actually they didn't have that (although apparently it gets its name from the country of Turkey; also, Ben Franklin felt that the turkey would be a better national bird than the eagle). As for the rest, I don't know for sure. My guess is that pork's different from the meat of other food animals in that it's harder to cook through or something, or maybe the parasites that live in pork are hardier than the ones that live in beef. OR maybe pork was more plentiful.
Alternate possibility: the role of God was then played by a clever bacon-loving man hiding behind a sheet with a spotlight and a megaphone. You know how gullible ancient people were.
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Post by Smurfette Principle on Mar 24, 2011 22:09:36 GMT -5
In Catholicism, you go to Hell, Purgatory, or Heaven. The way I was taught, normal people went to Purgatory, and depending on how bad you were, you suffered until your sins were cleansed, and then you went to Heaven. Truly evil people, like Hitler, went to Hell forever, and saints and other very good people went to Heaven immediately.
I always worried that if I didn't go to Confession enough, I'd rack up enough sins to go to Hell forever. I still do, but not as much anymore.
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Post by Art Vandelay on Mar 25, 2011 0:01:05 GMT -5
Oh, and the bacon thing only applies to actual Jews. If you're not Jewish, you aren't obligated. So basically, as a reward for worshipping God, he forbids you from eating bacon for some arbitrary reason.
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Post by MaybeNever on Mar 25, 2011 0:15:58 GMT -5
Maybe you get a motorcycle in heaven if you're observant. If you eat pork one time, you only get a moped.
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Post by DeadpanDoubter on Mar 25, 2011 0:22:34 GMT -5
In Catholicism, you go to Hell, Purgatory, or Heaven. The way I was taught, normal people went to Purgatory, and depending on how bad you were, you suffered until your sins were cleansed, and then you went to Heaven. Truly evil people, like Hitler, went to Hell forever, and saints and other very good people went to Heaven immediately. I always worried that if I didn't go to Confession enough, I'd rack up enough sins to go to Hell forever. I still do, but not as much anymore. I'm kinda torn on whether that's better or worse than "HELL OR HEAVEN YOUR CHOICE"...on the one hand, okay, you can make it to Purgatory and redeem yourself...on the other hand, Hell's still a possibility, and if you masturbate/have pre-marital sex/use birth control/etc. it seems like you're doomed. And I'm not even sure if I'm still talking about Catholic doctrine anymore. (Random story, my Catholic "grandmother" (Mama Patty <333) had 5 kids with an abusive, slacker husband. Their finances were tight enough to strangle her, and she knew they just couldn't handle having any more kids, so she went to the priest and asked him for advice...the priest basically told her "You do what you gotta do, and let God handle the rest. God's not gonna send you to Hell for taking care of your family." So she went and got birth control and just dealt with things the best she could...I've always wished I could give that priest a hug and a big 'thank you'.) MN: ...I KNEW IT, he's just wanting all my bacon for himself. D:
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Post by Mlle Antéchrist on Mar 25, 2011 1:28:03 GMT -5
He can have the pork bacon as long as we get to keep the turkey bacon.
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