|
|
Post by discoberry on Apr 25, 2009 17:30:51 GMT -5
If hell is eternal pain and damnation (for ya know...all eternity) wouldn't the idea of actually being in pain in hell be turned moot? Since you would be there for the entire total of the rest of your existence (forever), and you are always in pain... wouldn't pain loose all of its essence of actually being pain? If forever is pain, and nothing else- wouldn't pain become rather painless since there is no other option?
PS i swear im not stoned right now...Thought poped into my head on a long drive today
|
|
jes
New Member
Posts: 18
|
Post by jes on Apr 25, 2009 17:44:49 GMT -5
Bart Simpson made the same observation in Sunday School. If I recall the episode correctly, the teacher (unable to give an answer) got exasperated and sent him out of the classroom.
But, seriously, how could a soul or spirit or whatever one calls that thing feel pain anyway, lacking a brain and nerves and all that? (Not to mention that souls are probably just as non-existent as hell.)
|
|
|
|
Post by Star Cluster on Apr 25, 2009 17:54:21 GMT -5
The concept of hell was a helluva idea for keeping the unthinking faithful in check, but loses it's impact when common sense and logic are figured into the equation.
|
|
|
|
Post by Vene on Apr 25, 2009 18:08:12 GMT -5
If hell is eternal pain and damnation (for ya know...all eternity) wouldn't the idea of actually being in pain in hell be turned moot? Since you would be there for the entire total of the rest of your existence (forever), and you are always in pain... wouldn't pain loose all of its essence of actually being pain? If forever is pain, and nothing else- wouldn't pain become rather painless since there is no other option? PS i swear im not stoned right now...Thought poped into my head on a long drive today Well, assuming that we have at least have the nerves that are responsible for pain left, then yeah, we'd get used to it. Under constant stimulation nerves will eventually stop sending impulses. |
|
|
|
Post by dasfuchs on Apr 25, 2009 18:31:07 GMT -5
Yeah, it was an easy concept to believe back in the day when pain wasn't understood to require a physical form of sorts...course we left that train of thought along with leechings
|
|
|
|
Post by Rat Of Steel on Apr 25, 2009 18:39:00 GMT -5
Yeah, it was an easy concept to believe back in the day when pain wasn't understood to require a physical form of sorts...course we left that train of thought along with leechings Farther back than that, actually. Whereas leeches do, in fact, still serve a few legitimate medical purposes, the idea of feeling pain after death is just plain silly. |
|
|
|
Post by skyfire on Apr 25, 2009 19:20:18 GMT -5
The question assumes that Hell will be a physical punishment.
Some theologies, as well as a few interpretations of the Bible, hold that Hell will be mental in nature, in the sense that a person will have to spend eternity realizing just how badly they fouled up and how their foul-ups have cost them.
Physical pain goes away after a while, but mental pain is forever.
|
|
|
|
Post by Vene on Apr 25, 2009 19:53:12 GMT -5
Skyfire, mental is physical. There's a reason that PHYSICAL drugs alter the mental state.
|
|
|
|
Post by erictheblue on Apr 25, 2009 20:04:38 GMT -5
Skyfire, mental is physical. They can overlap, but they aren't the same. I can stub my toe, and it hurts, but I don't think any more about it. But if I screw something up and feel guilty over it, the guilt can eat away. The guilt is not actually hurting me; it isn't going to kill me. But I still suffer because of what I have done. |
|
|
|
Post by schizophonic on Apr 25, 2009 20:06:29 GMT -5
Bart Simpson made the same observation in Sunday School. If I recall the episode correctly, the teacher (unable to give an answer) got exasperated and sent him out of the classroom. But, seriously, how could a soul or spirit or whatever one calls that thing feel pain anyway, lacking a brain and nerves and all that? (Not to mention that souls are probably just as non-existent as hell.) I believe the teacher simply said they wouldn't get used to it. The question assumes that Hell will be a physical punishment. Some theologies, as well as a few interpretations of the Bible, hold that Hell will be mental in nature, in the sense that a person will have to spend eternity realizing just how badly they fouled up and how their foul-ups have cost them. Physical pain goes away after a while, but mental pain is forever. It also assumes a very modern view of Hell. But assuming the separation of the physical and the psychic, that's still no guarantee of eternal suffering or damnation. The concept of Hell usually relies on the ridiculous notion that everyone is like you (Not you specifically, but the person dictating it). For that matter, there are pains in our lives that make us who we are. Those pains cannot be removed without ending who we are. If that's the case, we're already dead if we end up in Heaven. |
|
|
|
Post by Vene on Apr 25, 2009 20:08:08 GMT -5
Skyfire, mental is physical. They can overlap, but they aren't the same. I can stub my toe, and it hurts, but I don't think any more about it. But if I screw something up and feel guilty over it, the guilt can eat away. The guilt is not actually hurting me; it isn't going to kill me. But I still suffer because of what I have done. In the end, what's going on is still chemistry, a physical science. |
|
|
|
Post by cagnazzo on Apr 25, 2009 20:15:36 GMT -5
They can overlap, but they aren't the same. I can stub my toe, and it hurts, but I don't think any more about it. But if I screw something up and feel guilty over it, the guilt can eat away. The guilt is not actually hurting me; it isn't going to kill me. But I still suffer because of what I have done. In the end, what's going on is still chemistry, a physical science. Vene appears to have beaten me to the topic. Damn you, Vene! Also, slightly tangential, but the nerves sending the pain signal use voltage and electrical gradients centrally enough that I'd almost consider parts of the nervous system to closer to physics than chemistry (though I realize that all things can be broken up to physics, and that breaking things up too far tends to make the model cumbersome and useless). |
|
|
|
Post by Yaezakura on Apr 25, 2009 20:20:13 GMT -5
Heck, even if we assume that the pain in Hell is entirely mental, there comes a point where ANYONE simply becomes numb. Even if it took someone thousands of years to become jaded enough not to feel their own emotional anguish, it WOULD eventually happen.
The human mind strives to survive however it can. And even if the methods are sometimes detrimental (such as shutting down ALL emotion to kill overwhelming negative ones) it almost always finds a way.
|
|
|
|
Post by Vene on Apr 25, 2009 20:26:51 GMT -5
In the end, what's going on is still chemistry, a physical science. Vene appears to have beaten me to the topic. Damn you, Vene! Also, slightly tangential, but the nerves sending the pain signal use voltage and electrical gradients centrally enough that I'd almost consider parts of the nervous system to closer to physics than chemistry (though I realize that all things can be broken up to physics, and that breaking things up too far tends to make the model cumbersome and useless). I'm biased towards using the chemical models because of my biochemistry and molecular biology background. I think it's important to note that where we divide different sciences is somewhat arbitrary, like this example which is biology, chemistry, and physics. |
|
|
|
Post by cagnazzo on Apr 25, 2009 20:38:30 GMT -5
I'm biased towards using the chemical models because of my biochemistry and molecular biology background. I think it's important to note that where we divide different sciences is somewhat arbitrary, like this example which is biology, chemistry, and physics. I hate chemistry, so I call it physics whenever is possible. I'm getting better though... And yes, the last part of my post was intended to show how once you're studying an organism, you can break most everything into other sciences. There's also other really vague spots, like when something stops being chemistry and is biology. Viruses? Prions? All too vague. Anyway, we're straying off topic, so in an attempt to bring it back from the awesome realm of science... Pain is used primarily biologically (haha, I got four words in before bringing it back to science) to condition something to be better in some way. People hurt others intentionally because they're sadists, or they're trying to improve the individual (spanking a child, etc), or because they need compliance for something (torture). Can anyone else think of any other reasons? Because as it stands, the idea of an inescapable permanent hell implies that compliance isn't the issue (even if one complies, it's inescapable), and improvement isn't the issue (it's permanent, if one got better, it would still continue) leaving me with sadism as the only reason it would even exist. I'm asking honestly, are there other reasons that entities hurt another? |
|
