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Post by doomie 22 on Apr 26, 2009 10:32:56 GMT -5
There is no heaven because an eternity of anything is hell.
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Post by antichrist on Apr 26, 2009 13:50:24 GMT -5
Even reincarnation makes more sense than Heaven. At least your incarnations are new stories in the circle.
The Egyptian heaven was just like earth, except without the pain and suffering. But if you were a farmer here, you were a farmer there.
Nope, I'll take Nothingness for 100.
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Post by antichrist on Apr 26, 2009 13:51:22 GMT -5
*nods* My brother (who is an atheist agriculture major and aspiring organic farmer) and I both had our Rapture-believing relatives try to draw us into fights on and around Earth Day. They find all these pseudo-scientific reasons as to why twirly light bulbs, water filters, wind and solar power, recycling, hybrid vehicles, urban gardening, etc. don't work and shouldn't be done. It amazes us how willing they are to shit all over people who are trying to make something worthwhile happen. But, you know, treating the Earth like your home is an act of "worshipping the creation rather than the Creator", and God wants you to make as huge a mess as you can. It only makes sense in light of their beliefs on the afterlife. When we commisserated, we kept saying variations of, "If we treated their houses the way they treat their God's earth, we'd never get invited back, ever." Which sometimes doesn't seem like such a bad thing. </rant> I frequently get into this with 90% of my family. Not the specifics, because I don't think they give a shit about urban gardening (for example), but they're fine with destroying the Earth, both because God will protect them and because the opposite is evil communism. I dread family gatherings because the conservitards and Jebus freaks all take the time to proudly proclaim even the dumbest of ideas, looking for a fight. Get your hands on Ativan for such things. It makes families much more bearable.
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Post by CtraK on Apr 26, 2009 15:36:35 GMT -5
Re: eternal life.
Thing is, aren't some of us forgetting, erm, the ability to forget? Surely if we lived for eternity, long-term memory would eventually not stretch back far enough (otherwise you'd have an infinitely powerful memory, which wouldn't make you human). You'd forget everything that happened to you a thousand, a million or a billion years back unless it was hugely, massively significant or unless (for example, the ability to speak) you were reminded of it/used it frequently. I'm not seeing this whole "an eternity of anything is hell" narrative, because if you gave up sex, for example, for a million years, you'd eventually rediscover it - literally.
Anyway, my two Euro cents (British pence aren't worth enough right now).
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Post by Bluefinger on Apr 26, 2009 15:53:53 GMT -5
Re: eternal life. Thing is, aren't some of us forgetting, erm, the ability to forget? Surely if we lived for eternity, long-term memory would eventually not stretch back far enough (otherwise you'd have an infinitely powerful memory, which wouldn't make you human). You'd forget everything that happened to you a thousand, a million or a billion years back unless it was hugely, massively significant or unless (for example, the ability to speak) you were reminded of it/used it frequently. I'm not seeing this whole "an eternity of anything is hell" narrative, because if you gave up sex, for example, for a million years, you'd eventually rediscover it - literally. Anyway, my two Euro cents (British pence aren't worth enough right now). If you forget, then you aren't a perfect being, which is usually what a lot of theologies hold. Plus, if you forget, there will be a point where you will forget all the experiences that made you who you were. If go so long and forget about your experiences on Earth, then why bother with having an experience on Earth to begin with if it is only going to be forgotten eventually?
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Post by Yaezakura on Apr 26, 2009 16:04:48 GMT -5
Re: eternal life. Thing is, aren't some of us forgetting, erm, the ability to forget? Surely if we lived for eternity, long-term memory would eventually not stretch back far enough (otherwise you'd have an infinitely powerful memory, which wouldn't make you human). You'd forget everything that happened to you a thousand, a million or a billion years back unless it was hugely, massively significant or unless (for example, the ability to speak) you were reminded of it/used it frequently. I'm not seeing this whole "an eternity of anything is hell" narrative, because if you gave up sex, for example, for a million years, you'd eventually rediscover it - literally. Anyway, my two Euro cents (British pence aren't worth enough right now). If you forget, then you aren't a perfect being, which is usually what a lot of theologies hold. Plus, if you forget, there will be a point where you will forget all the experiences that made you who you were. If go so long and forget about your experiences on Earth, then why bother with having an experience on Earth to begin with if it is only going to be forgotten eventually? Exactly. If Earthly life is something you're just going to forget in its entirety anyway, why have us go through it at all? It doesn't make a bit of sense, even as far as religion goes (which should say something about just how little sense it makes). Either we remember everything, and eventually become tortured by the meaningless of our own eternal lives, or we forget, and our mortal lives were entirely meaningless.
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Post by schizophonic on Apr 26, 2009 16:29:14 GMT -5
Even reincarnation makes more sense than Heaven. At least your incarnations are new stories in the circle. The Egyptian heaven was just like earth, except without the pain and suffering. But if you were a farmer here, you were a farmer there. Nope, I'll take Nothingness for 100. Well, someone's gotta clean the streets in Heaven. I've always wondered about stuff like that, though. I mean, say you can chill with Abe Lincoln, Socrates, and joan of Arc (assume they all went to the same Heaven). Yeah, how many of us are going to be worth their time? Is our station improved simply because we're in Heaven?\ On a personal note, do I still get to play Highway to Hell really loud? And if so, is it poor taste to wave down when I sing the line " Hey Satan?" I take Lorazepam for panic attacks, which I'm pretty sure is the same thing. My family can sure feel like a panic attack... Which is one of the reasons I hope gay marriage passes in Maine. Let them have their blood pressure rise for once. And yet, I feel bad, because they're family. But honestly, I don't think there are enough drugs in the world to deal with my family.
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Post by ironbite on Apr 27, 2009 0:55:53 GMT -5
There's a number of alternate concepts for Heaven. For example, the LDS concept is that once in Heaven people will have a chance to learn everything there is to learn about theology and existence, at which point they'll be tasked with sharing it with others. People can meet up again on the other side, but it'll still be busy times. And after you run out of people to teach and still have the infinite stretch of eternity ahead, what's next? An eternity of boredom is hardly my idea of paradise. Oh and then there's endless celestial sex. Ironbite-can't forget about the endless celestial sex now can ya?
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Post by Yaezakura on Apr 27, 2009 1:58:59 GMT -5
Oh and then there's endless celestial sex. Ironbite-can't forget about the endless celestial sex now can ya? Sad as it makes me to say it, I'm pretty sure that after a few billion years, I'd have had my fill of every hot girl that had ever lived. There would come a time when even sex had become so mundane as to be indistinguishable from a handshake. That's the flaw with the very idea of eternity. For any sentient creature, eternity is essentially torture. There comes a point where you have literally done absolutely everything to excess. You will eventually have come up with every new thing there could ever possibly be and done it all--and still have eternity left. The very idea of eternity terrified me far more than the idea of oblivion.
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Post by Sandafluffoid on Apr 27, 2009 2:03:14 GMT -5
If you forget, then you aren't a perfect being, which is usually what a lot of theologies hold. Plus, if you forget, there will be a point where you will forget all the experiences that made you who you were. If go so long and forget about your experiences on Earth, then why bother with having an experience on Earth to begin with if it is only going to be forgotten eventually? Exactly. If Earthly life is something you're just going to forget in its entirety anyway, why have us go through it at all? It doesn't make a bit of sense, even as far as religion goes (which should say something about just how little sense it makes). Either we remember everything, and eventually become tortured by the meaningless of our own eternal lives, or we forget, and our mortal lives were entirely meaningless. More to the point we'd all know we were going to forget, so we'd be constantly tortured by the fear of forgetting the things we love, and eventually driven insane wondering what we have forgotten.
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Post by Yaezakura on Apr 27, 2009 2:23:37 GMT -5
More to the point we'd all know we were going to forget, so we'd be constantly tortured by the fear of forgetting the things we love, and eventually driven insane wondering what we have forgotten. Oohh, I hadn't even considered the fear of the forgetting. That's a whole other layer of mind fuck on top of everything else wrong with eternity.
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Post by wmdkitty on Apr 27, 2009 2:30:50 GMT -5
Heaven is a warm patch of sunlight and a cat to share it with.
ETA: My left leg fell asleep!
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Post by ironbite on Apr 27, 2009 2:47:57 GMT -5
Oh and then there's endless celestial sex. Ironbite-can't forget about the endless celestial sex now can ya? Sad as it makes me to say it, I'm pretty sure that after a few billion years, I'd have had my fill of every hot girl that had ever lived. There would come a time when even sex had become so mundane as to be indistinguishable from a handshake. That's the flaw with the very idea of eternity. For any sentient creature, eternity is essentially torture. There comes a point where you have literally done absolutely everything to excess. You will eventually have come up with every new thing there could ever possibly be and done it all--and still have eternity left. The very idea of eternity terrified me far more than the idea of oblivion. Well you wouldn't actually be able to be nailing any hot girls for all eternity. You'd be one of the many eternal brides of some guy and you're only desire ever would be to accept his celestial dick in your celestial womb to bear his many many many celestial babies. Ironbite-DOESN'T THAT SOUND LIKE FUN! EHEHEHEHEHEHEHE!
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Post by skyfire on Apr 27, 2009 9:05:38 GMT -5
Sad as it makes me to say it, I'm pretty sure that after a few billion years, I'd have had my fill of every hot girl that had ever lived. There would come a time when even sex had become so mundane as to be indistinguishable from a handshake. That's the flaw with the very idea of eternity. For any sentient creature, eternity is essentially torture. There comes a point where you have literally done absolutely everything to excess. You will eventually have come up with every new thing there could ever possibly be and done it all--and still have eternity left. The very idea of eternity terrified me far more than the idea of oblivion. Well you wouldn't actually be able to be nailing any hot girls for all eternity. You'd be one of the many eternal brides of some guy and you're only desire ever would be to accept his celestial dick in your celestial womb to bear his many many many celestial babies. Ironbite-DOESN'T THAT SOUND LIKE FUN! EHEHEHEHEHEHEHE! Why, I find myself asking, does this dinosaur take such delight in making a fool out of himself by trolling and bringing up unrelated arguments?
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Post by schizophonic on Apr 27, 2009 9:09:05 GMT -5
Why, I find myself asking, does this dinosaur take such delight in making a fool out of himself by trolling and bringing up unrelated arguments? Why, I find myself asking, does this...Ummm...Whatever think it's unrelated? ETA: Notice I didn't say he wasn't a troll.
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